Abberline solved the GSG

[Wickerman]

Hello Ben.
.
.
"The presence of cachous in Stride's hand makes no sense whatsoever if the killer took her completely by surprise."

Well, if both are walking out of the yard, yes, perfectly natural.

Cheers.
LC

I didn't understand that point either Lynn. It is precisely because they were still in her hand which speaks to the surprise, no struggle, unable to react in any way, I took it everyone realized this.

None of which supports nor contests the culpability of BSman, its a neutral point.

[c.d.]

Hello (again) CD.

"The BS man as Liz's killer has way too many red flags associated with it."

I would go further--it has too many red flags to be other than a story.

Cheers.
LC

Hello Lynn,

To be fair to Schwartz, he never stated that he saw the BS man kill Liz. He only saw a woman being pushed to the ground.

c.d.

[c.d.]

I didn't understand that point either Lynn. It is precisely because they were still in her hand which speaks to the surprise, no struggle, unable to react in any way, I took it everyone realized this.

None of which supports nor contests the culpability of BSman, its a neutral point.

Then we have to believe that Liz had no idea she was in danger even though the BS man had pushed her to the ground and threatened Schwartz.

c.d.

[Wickerman]

Then we have to believe that Liz had no idea she was in danger even though the BS man had pushed her to the ground and threatened Schwartz.

c.d.

Which most likely lends itself to the attacker being someone else other than BSman.
(ie, BSman is innocent)

Less likely, though not impossible, is that after Schwartz took off, BSman stepped towards Stride all apologetic-like and helped her up.

Why was she holding the paper packet?
Given that the most obvious suggestion (previous post) is being set aside then... some alternates.

- Initially, in the first assault, the packet came out of her pocket, so, after she composed herself, she stooped to pick it up?

- Or, BSman offered the packet to her as a peace offering?

- Alternately, the packet was up the cuff of her sleeve, and just fell into her hand at the time she hit the ground when murdered?

In either case BSman may or may not have been her killer.

We don't know that the cachous/sweetmeats belonged to Stride, just that they were found in her hand, but none in her mouth.

[c.d.]

Hello Wickerman,

It is certainly possible that Liz being pushed to the ground was an accident with the BS man pulling one way and she the other. He might have let go unexpectedly and she fell. Apologies and a show of money might have placated her. The problem with that scenario is that he went on to kill her after being seen by Schwartz and the Pipe Man. Certainly within the realm of possibilities.

c.d.

[Wickerman]

The problem with that scenario is that he went on to kill her after being seen by Schwartz and the Pipe Man.

The problem with that scenario is that ..IF..he went on to kill her, after being seen by Schwartz and the Pipe Man, he was careless in the extreme. Not at all in the character we have formed of the image of the Whitechapel murderer.

Maybe our image is false, but what means do we have to test this image, except by the results we are familiar with across the rest of the murders?

[c.d.]

Yes, I meant IF. It was careless or incredible bravado by her killer be it the Whitechapel murderer or someone else.

c.d.

[lynn cates]

indeed

Hello Jon. Thanks.

"It is precisely because they were still in her hand which speaks to the surprise, no struggle, unable to react in any way, I took it everyone realized this."

Quite.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

no witness

Hello CD. Thanks.

"To be fair to Schwartz, he never stated that he saw the BS man kill Liz. He only saw a woman being pushed to the ground."

Quite agree.

Which should give pause to anyone claiming Schwartz was a later witness.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

I 'ave me doubts.

Hello CD.

"Then we have to believe that Liz had no idea she was in danger even though the BS man had pushed her to the ground and threatened Schwartz."

Another good reason to doubt his story.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

miracle

Hello Jon.

"the packet was up the cuff of her sleeve, and just fell into her hand at the time she hit the ground when murdered?"

Fell between her open finger and thumb, and, just at that moment, clenched them?

Cheers.
LC

[c.d.]

Hello CD.

"Then we have to believe that Liz had no idea she was in danger even though the BS man had pushed her to the ground and threatened Schwartz."

Another good reason to doubt his story.

Cheers.
LC

Hello Lynn,

His story would certainly be consistent with a club member or someone associated with the club taking offense at Liz standing there and pushing her (perhaps accidentally) while trying to get her to move. He calls her a dumb bitch and goes on his way.

c.d.

[Wickerman]

Hello Jon.

"the packet was up the cuff of her sleeve, and just fell into her hand at the time she hit the ground when murdered?"

Fell between her open finger and thumb, and, just at that moment, clenched them?

Cheers.
LC

Somewhat similar to when you put your finger in the palm of a baby's hand...the fingers curl up.

[lynn cates]

begone

Hello CD. Thanks.

"His story would certainly be consistent with a club member or someone associated with the club taking offense at Liz standing there and pushing her (perhaps accidentally) while trying to get her to move. He calls her a dumb bitch and goes on his way."

Agree. Could it be followed by, "You'd better be gone."?

Then he stops inside for a minute or two. Comes out, she's in the yard (cachous now in hand), "I thought I told yo to go away?" It escalates.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

moved

Hello Jon. Thanks.

"Somewhat similar to when you put your finger in the palm of a baby's hand...the fingers curl up."

Absolutely. But the finger in the palm is in the palm, not between thumb and finger. Unless it moves. An adult's finger? Sure. Inanimate cachous? Likely not.

Cheers.
LC