GSG j or d

[moonbegger]

Nice one Bridewell On Moon's thread as well

[Robert]

Rosey, I think you've solved it. JTR wrote the GSG thinking, "I'll jolly well screw up Warren's aetiology with a confusing semantic semiotic."

Oh, the cunning, cunning devil.

[Rosey O'Ryan]

As this is the only 'live' GSG thread, I hope I can be forgiven for using it to flick out an idle thought which was sparked on another.

Two things which I have found troubling about the traditional reading of the second word as 'Juwes':

The first is that, if correct, it is the only mis-spelt (badly so) word in the GSG, where even 'nothing' is correct.

The second is that 'men' is used in preference to 'people' or 'nation'. The Juwes (Jews) comprise both men and women, so why allude only to men?
I know that various alternatives have been suggested, Donston Stevenson's 'Juives' being the best known perhaps.

The newspapers, in the days leading up to the Double Event had been covering the Nichols and Chapman inquests in great detail, including, on occasion, the questions put by the (exclusively male?) jurors. If the GSG has any relevance at all to the murders (always a moot point), might the taunt be that

"The Juries are the the men that will not be blamed for nothing"? (Everybody's blaming the police but the inquests haven't laid a glove on me either?).

I proffer this, not because I subscribe to it as particularly likely, but because it's a possibility I've not seen discussed before. (I'll await the customary onslaught!)

Bridewell,
You do us the honour of pointing to a confusing TERM at the heart of Ripper aetiology...so to speak.I am curious as to your present thoughts regarding this semantic semiotic, or tother way round?
As Ever,
Rosey

[Cogidubnus]

Oh I dunno...there was plenty of wall inside, above where the apron piece was found...just not a lot where Warren said it was!

All the best

Dave

[Stephen Thomas]

Stephen, I think he had enough chalk, but not enough wall.

Sharp as ever, my friend.

[Robert]

Stephen, I think he had enough chalk, but not enough wall.

[Stephen Thomas]

It seems a bit oblique, the idea that just after mutilating Eddowes the Ripper would think of juries. But maybe he couldn't spell "coroners."

I think he actually wanted to write The Moderators of the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland but didn't have enough chalk so wrote Juwes instead.

[Mr Lucky]

The newspapers, in the days leading up to the Double Event had been covering the Nichols and Chapman inquests in great detail, including, on occasion, the questions put by the (exclusively male?) jurors. If the GSG has any relevance at all to the murders (always a moot point), might the taunt be that

"The Juries are the the men that will not be blamed for nothing"? (Everybody's blaming the police but the inquests haven't laid a glove on me either?).

I proffer this, not because I subscribe to it as particularly likely, but because it's a possibility I've not seen discussed before. (I'll await the customary onslaught!)

Ha-Ha,

That's hilarious - it's Cross that's caught out by the jury!!

'The Coroner - Did you see Police constable Neil in Buck's row?
The Witness - No, sir. I saw no one after leaving home, except the man that overtook me, the constable in Baker's row, and the deceased. There was nobody in Buck's row when we left.
The Coroner - Did the other man tell you who he was?
The Witness - No, sir. He merely said that he would have fetched a policeman but he was behind time. I was behind time myself.
A juryman - Did you tell Constable Mizen that another policeman wanted him in Buck's row?
The Witness - No; because I did not see a policeman in Buck's row.'
Daily News 4 Sept 1888

Nice one Bridewell On Moon's thread as well

[Robert]

Hi Bridewell

Yes the juries were all male.

I think in the past there's been speculation as to whether the GSG might be about a family surnamed "Jury" or "Juwe."

It seems a bit oblique, the idea that just after mutilating Eddowes the Ripper would think of juries. But maybe he couldn't spell "coroners."

[Bridewell]

Juries

As this is the only 'live' GSG thread, I hope I can be forgiven for using it to flick out an idle thought which was sparked on another.

Two things which I have found troubling about the traditional reading of the second word as 'Juwes':

The first is that, if correct, it is the only mis-spelt (badly so) word in the GSG, where even 'nothing' is correct.

The second is that 'men' is used in preference to 'people' or 'nation'. The Juwes (Jews) comprise both men and women, so why allude only to men?
I know that various alternatives have been suggested, Donston Stevenson's 'Juives' being the best known perhaps.

The newspapers, in the days leading up to the Double Event had been covering the Nichols and Chapman inquests in great detail, including, on occasion, the questions put by the (exclusively male?) jurors. If the GSG has any relevance at all to the murders (always a moot point), might the taunt be that

"The Juries are the the men that will not be blamed for nothing"? (Everybody's blaming the police but the inquests haven't laid a glove on me either?).

I proffer this, not because I subscribe to it as particularly likely, but because it's a possibility I've not seen discussed before. (I'll await the customary onslaught!)

[moonbegger]

Jon ,

You appear to have missed the point I made that the police always, even prior to Warren, wore the same footwear.
The fault was not due to Warren.

Yes it would appear that we were referring to very different arguments Jon ..
The point that I was trying to make , was that Bobby's on the beat were instantly recognizable by there heavy step , regardless as to who was responsible for dressing them .

cheers

moonbegger

[Wickerman]

But we do have many reports from people who were there at the time indicating as much .. are they all a fallacy ?

PC Neil .. From 60 yards ..

One of many newspaper quotes regarding the heavy military style tread of the London Bobby , that everyone seemed to be aware of ..


cheers

moonbegger

You appear to have missed the point I made that the police always, even prior to Warren, wore the same footwear.
The fault was not due to Warren.

You may be amused to read:

Citizen Police with Noiseless Boots.

Under the supervision of the local vigilance committee, upwards of a score of citizen detectives went out on duty at twelve o'clock last night. The locality is divided into "beats," and by pre-arrangement those who have undertaken the assistance of the regular police meet periodically at central points during the night to report themselves. Noiseless boots, as from time to time suggested for the force, have been provided for the amateur policemen.
Star, Oct. 4, 1888.

[Cogidubnus]

Cross was an employee, not a subcontractor...he worked for Pickfords, who in turn were publicly available for hire or reward. They were already a substantial haulage firm with exclusive contracts tied to several really substantial railway companies...this is a matter of public record and company history.

The notion that his cart would be like a wheelbarrow and wheeled from home to work is, I'm afraid, nothing short of risible...

Sorry!

Dave

[Bridewell]

Carmen

My understanding is that a carman used a cart pulled by a horse. He was the equivalent of the modern-day delivery-van driver. One of the Buckle Street Butchers* was a Distiller's Carman in later life, and I can't imagine that a wheelbarrow of any description would have been adequate for the work.

*May do a Rip article on them at some point.

[moonbegger]

Hello Greg ,

Cross ( Lechmere ) was walking to work that morning along the north pavement of Bucks row with nothing in his possession but bad luck , He had no cart . He was on his way to Liverpool street where he worked for Pickfords as a carman . He certainly did not have a barrow with him .

cheers

moonbegger