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Did Halse do it ?

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  • Did Halse do it ?

    Here is something that has been playing on my mind for some time now regarding the GSG , Some time ago i read a post by Bridewell where he quotes Paul Harrison's book ' Jack the Ripper - The Mystery Solved '

    In Paul Harrison's book, 'Jack the Ripper - The Mystery Solved' he claims that contacts within the Metropolitan Police have told him of resentment within the Met at being blamed for everything that was wrong in East London and at being compared unfavourably with the City Force:

    "The message was nothing more than a jibe at the City Police. The word 'Juwes' should have been spelt 'Jewes' and was meant to refer to the nickname used by the majority of the Metropolitan Officers when referring to their City opponents. The nickname derives from the Old Jewry police headquarters of the City Police.
    If the story is correct, a fact in which I have no reason to doubt, then it explains Superintendent Arnold and Sir Charles Warren's rival actions in removing the message".
    Especially if we tie it together with the " Nothing " in the GSG message ! This would clearly point a finger at someone who was present at the Bishopsgate police station at the time Eddows replied " Nothing" to Constable Robinson .. All of a sudden it becomes less Killer related , and more of a ( one upmanship ) battle between two rival police forces !

    Which leads us to possibly one author ! ( if not the Killer )

    Halse was a city man ! could he have been present at the time Eddows blurted out " Nothing" to constable Robinson ? We Know he was in Mitre square and could have quite easily identified Eddows as the person held at Bishopsgate earlier that evening. And we know he was in Goulston street at about 2.20am , the same time that PC Long ( MET) was passing down it . How simple would it be for Hulse , once he had passed Long, to whip out his police chalk and scrawl the message using the light of his flash lamp ? But where did he find the apron ? Was it already there , and honestly missed by Long , or did Hulse find it elsewhere and place it protruding from the entrance of 109-118 knowing full well that Long would find it on his next round ?

    Also there is this by Derek Osbourne ..
    Immediately after the discovery of Eddowes' body, DC Halse, who had been summoned to the murder site by a frantic fanfare of police whistles. found himself hurrying through a complex of streets in search of the fugitive. At 2.20am, he passed along Goulston Street. Halse later reported that he believed the writing had been placed on the wall after his search of Goulston Street, because when he examined the entrance to Wentworth Model Dwellings, he had found nothing of interest there.
    But PC Alfred Long did! At 2.55am, as he made his way along Goulston Street, he stopped at the entrance to the Dwellings and made two finds; the writing on the wall and the dirty, blood stained rag.
    Apologies if this whole shin-dig scenario has been put forward before !

    moonbegger .

  • #2
    Halse was not present when Eddowes was charged.

    Halse was in Goulston Street around 2.20am. He never stated an exact time.

    Also he stated he passed down Goulston Street, not that he looked in the entrance. Osbournes embelishment veers away from what was stated at inquest.

    Why would Halse, whose record is one of the best I've seen, who's arrest record and commendations are examples of an excellent DC, do such an act?


    Monty
    Monty

    https://forum.casebook.org/core/imag...t/evilgrin.gif

    Author of Capturing Jack the Ripper.

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1445621622

    Comment


    • #3
      Hello Monty ,

      Halse was not present when Eddowes was charged.
      How do you know this ?

      moonbegger

      Comment


      • #4
        Outram and Marriott

        Hello MB. If you are thinking along the lines of "Halse killed Kate," you might need a good answer to the question, "Where were Outram and Marriott when it happened?"

        Cheers.
        LC

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by moonbegger View Post
          Hello Monty ,



          How do you know this ?

          moonbegger
          Well firstly she wasn't charged. My error, apologies.

          Secondly Eddowes was arrested at around 8.30pm, an hour and 15 minutes before change over. In other words she was banged up in the cells in the yard by the time Halse went on duty.

          Thirdly, DCs, nor any PC not involved in the arrest or processing, would be present.

          And finally, Halse never stated he was, nor does Byfield, Robinson and Simmons....who all were.

          Monty
          Monty

          https://forum.casebook.org/core/imag...t/evilgrin.gif

          Author of Capturing Jack the Ripper.

          http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1445621622

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by lynn cates View Post
            Hello MB. If you are thinking along the lines of "Halse killed Kate," you might need a good answer to the question, "Where were Outram and Marriott when it happened?"

            Cheers.
            LC
            Hello Lynn ,

            No not at all .. more of a ( one upmanship ) battle between two rival police forces regarding the GSG !

            moonbegger .

            Comment


            • #7
              Monty ,

              But would Halse have not been bought up to speed by his colleagues in regards to the drunk in cell # who gave her name as "Nothing" especially after they find her ripped up in Mitre Sq ?

              I think he would have been made aware of the particulars , if not at the station , definitely around the lifeless remains of Eddows , once they suspect that she is the same woman just freed from Bishopsgate police station .

              Eddowes was arrested at around 8.30pm, an hour and 15 minutes before change over. In other words she was banged up in the cells in the yard by the time Halse went on duty.
              But it was 8.45pm before she got to Bishopsgate and replied "Nothing". Just an hour .. Fresh enough to be an entertaining conversation for folk getting ready for duty !

              moonbegger .
              Last edited by moonbegger; 09-28-2012, 08:08 AM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by moonbegger View Post
                Monty ,

                But would Halse have not been bought up to speed by his colleagues in regards to the drunk in cell # who gave her name as "Nothing" especially after they find her ripped up in Mitre Sq ?

                I think he would have been made aware of the particulars , if not at the station , definitely around the lifeless remains of Eddows , once they suspect that she is the same woman just freed from Bishopsgate police station .



                But it was 8.45pm before she got to Bishopsgate and replied "Nothing". Just an hour .. Fresh enough to be an entertaining conversation for folk getting ready for duty !

                moonbegger .
                Why would Uniform update CID of a drunk in the cells of Bishopsgate nick? Especially, when you consider the probability, Eddowes wasn't the only drunk locked up that night?

                One of a fair few that week.

                Monty
                Monty

                https://forum.casebook.org/core/imag...t/evilgrin.gif

                Author of Capturing Jack the Ripper.

                http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1445621622

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by moonbegger View Post
                  I think he would have been made aware of the particulars , if not at the station , definitely around the lifeless remains of Eddows , once they suspect that she is the same woman just freed from Bishopsgate police station .
                  The police did not know that the victim was the woman who had been at the Bishopgate nick for quite some time after the murder. She wasn't even identified until Tuesday.
                  Best Wishes,
                  Hunter
                  ____________________________________________

                  When evidence is not to be had, theories abound. Even the most plausible of them do not carry conviction- London Times Nov. 10.1888

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The Harrison Quote

                    Just for the record, whilst I did post the extract from Paul Harrison's book, and found the possible explanation interesting, I don't think it's a likely scenario. The police service has its fair share of wind-up merchants and I suspect that someone may have been pulling Harrison's leg. Quite apart from anything else, if 'Jewes' had ever been a Met nickname for the City Police, I would imagine that Don Rumbelow, as an ex-City man, would know of it.

                    Regards, Bridewell.
                    I won't always agree but I'll try not to be disagreeable.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Halse?

                      As for Dc Halse himself, he was the one officer who was firmly of the opinion that the GSG should be preserved until such time as the content had been photographed. That's the view I would expect from an experienced investigator, but not from someone who had written the GSG himself. By his own account, at about 2 minutes to 2am, Halse, with Marriott & Outram, was "at the corner of Houndsditch by Aldgate Church" when he learned of the murder and went, with his two detective colleagues, to Mitre Square. From there the three officers spread out in different directions, with Halse heading towards Spitalfields. For Halse to be the killer, he would have to leave Mitre Square just before the body was found (1.44am perhaps?), leave his Force area to walk (or run) to Goulston Street, deposit the apron piece, write the graffito (perhaps), clean himself up and walk/run to Houndsditch in time to meet up with his colleagues without them suspecting anything untoward - not out of breath, not flustered, not smeared with blood, not smelling of faeces - nothing.

                      Did Halse do it? No.

                      Regards, Bridewell.
                      I won't always agree but I'll try not to be disagreeable.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Halse could have done it if he had a twelve-dimensional space-time transducer.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Robert View Post
                          Halse could have done it if he had a twelve-dimensional space-time transducer.
                          Is there any evidence that he did not

                          Hello Bridewell , Robert .

                          I think you may have both misread my post . I make no claim that Halse was indeed the killer ..

                          This would clearly point a finger at someone who was present at the Bishopsgate police station at the time Eddows replied " Nothing" to Constable Robinson .. All of a sudden it becomes less Killer related , and more of a ( one upmanship ) battle between two rival police forces !
                          This is just about the GSG and Apron and the likelihood they had nothing to do with the murders . Apologies if i was less than clear about this .

                          cheers

                          moonbegger

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Hi Moonbegger

                            Yes, as far as the GSG goes, he'd only have needed a sonic screwdriver for that.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              The GSG

                              Originally posted by moonbegger View Post
                              Is there any evidence that he did not

                              Hello Bridewell , Robert .

                              I think you may have both misread my post . I make no claim that Halse was indeed the killer ..



                              This is just about the GSG and Apron and the likelihood they had nothing to do with the murders . Apologies if i was less than clear about this .

                              cheers

                              moonbegger
                              Hi MB,

                              I had indeed misread your post. For that my apologies, but my answer to the correct question is the same: Did Halse do it (write the GSG)? No.

                              Regards, Bridewell.
                              I won't always agree but I'll try not to be disagreeable.

                              Comment

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