The word JUWES

[Krinoid]

is there any evidence Abberline served anywhere else?

[martin wilson]

Hi Rivkah,
Thank you very much for that, lucky I had a feeling it was not right,or else I could have gone off on one and come up with a whole new theory.
All the best.

[moonbegger]

But was the 'message' if any,in the oddly capitalised letters and any thoughts on what it might mean?

Stirring for half a century now.
All the best.

Hi Martin ,

Not sure how much weight this article has, but i found it a tad curious

.In Freemasonry What is meant by the letters J.M.B. on the triangular stone? They are the initials of the three Hebrew words, Joshagn, Mawkoms, Bawheer – signifying "the elect sleeps in his place."

Now, if you look at the Goulston Street Graffiti, you can see that these three letters "J.M.B." are capitalized. This is how the City of London policeman and the Metropolitan Policeman recorded the graffiti after having seen it or just prior to its removal. This particular phrase would only have significance to a higher level Freemason, like Warren, and was a clue/sign that these murders were committed by Royal Arch Masons, and the murderers, as such, were to be shielded at all costs.

Not sure where they got the capital M from ? And how do most on here perceive the alignment of the words ? Warren has 5 lines down , whereas Long ( i think ) has 3 lines of text .. How could two people trained in the art of observation be so far apart ?

. The Juwes are The
....... men that will not
....be Blamed for nothing

mmm.. 5 capitals ? 5 victims ( exc Stride ) Tabram stabbed 39 times , is it all about the Magic numbers ?

Is this another possible reason Warren may have felt a little uneasy and scrubbed the wall ? Baring in mind i'm talking about HIS perception .. about his own personal deductions of what may be going on ( whether it is, or it isn't )
1) The word Juwes . 2) J.M.B lined up .3) written on the inside of the Arch [Warrens words] 4) the associated Apron . 5) Mitre Square, 6) The wounds inflicted on the victims ( Chapman and Eddows in particular)

Would not Warren being an intelligent man and a leading Freemason , put these things together and fear the worse no matter what ?

Is this a little odd also ?

Warren finally had enough and resigned-coincidentally right before the murder of Mary Jane Kelly on 9 November 1888. Every superintendent on the force visited him at home to express their regret. Warren's resignation hindered the investigation. He had given an order that if another murder occurred, nobody was to enter the scene - a strange turn of phrase as the four previous victims had all been found in the open street -

cheers

moonbegger

[RivkahChaya]

Joshagn, Mawkoms, Bawheer – signifying "the elect sleeps in his place."

I'm not sure what "signifying" means in this context. It doesn't mean "translate," because the transliterations are really, really off, and that isn't a grammatical sentence.

Anyway, one at a time:

"Joshagn," which I assume picked up a gratuitous "g" someplace, is supposed to be "sleeps." It should be "Yashan."

"Mawkoms" I assume is "place." It should "makum." "In his place" would be "b'makumi," or "b'makum sheli." It's ambiguous, because just as in English, without context "in his place" could mean "in a physical space that belongs to someone," or it could mean "acting as a substitute for someone."

"Bawheer" for elect has me scratching my head a little. That's really an adjective, so someone is forcing it to come out to be a "B" word, I think. It should be "nabachir," with the "ch" being a glottal fricative, like in German. However, if it is "the elect," it should be "ha-nabachir."

So, what you have is "sleeps" (verb, misspelled), "place" (noun, misspelled) "elect" (adjective). It would mean something like "The chosen place sleeps," where "place" is the subject of the verb sleeps, and "chosen" modifies "place." However, I am not an expert (I know some people who are, though, and I could check with them), that's just making the best sense out of it that is possible. It's not really a good sentence. It's not complete gibberish, but it doesn't sound like something a person would really say.

[RivkahChaya]

But was the 'message' if any,in the oddly capitalised letters and any thoughts on what it might mean?

Either that the person who wrote it was not a native English speaker, and the writer's first language alphabet did not use capital and lowercase letters, or the writer was trying to parody the writing of such a person.

Or, the writer's first language was a language that just used capitals differently, the way, for example, German capitalizes all nouns (and at the time, most nouns), and has a different set of rules for capitalizing adjectives from English, which I don't feel like looking up right now.

[martin wilson]

Hi Rivkah
I'm sorry,it wasn't my intention to put you to so much trouble for what was only a semi serious bit of speculation.
As I said,my own personal opinion is that the GSG has nothing to do with the murder, but I'm more than prepared to admit my opinions are worthless,TJTWB might mean something,even if I don't think it does.
For what it's worth I see some similarities with the Lusk letter 'sor' 'prasarved' and 'Juwes' for example, there is also a wrongly capitalised 'Kidne',as well as a possible over use of capitals,the letter is not punctuated,and imho,the writer uses capitals in the right places,but there also seems to me to be an over emphasis with capitals,but that's subjective.
All the best.

[martin wilson]

Hi Moonbegger,
The only possible connection I can think of that may have caused a problem for Warren is that he must have known Golden Dawn founder William Wynn Westcott as Westcott later became master of the Quautor Coronati lodge of which Warren was a founder member.
If there was a prostitute killer in the Golden Dawn it would have been Edward William Berridge,although the source is demented, Aleister Crowleys' novel 'Moonchild' which is primarily a somewhat hysterical slander of former members and associates.
Still,for what it's worth,the character based on Berridge 'Balloch' kills a prostitute after a bizarre marriage ceremony, the line following the events something like 'who would worry about the death of a poor prostitute'.
Berridge is an interesting character,a doctor and homeopathist, also according to Sue Young histories something of a sex pest.
Another source states he was a follower of Thomas Lake Harris,and his insistence on psychosexual theory led to Annie Horniman resigning from the Golden Dawn.
Another source states he was a practitioner of Karezza,a form of tantric sex, intercourse without orgasm.
In 1895 he threatened Golden Dawn members with 'death from a syncope' if they revealed secrets, the Golden Dawn website seems to take this quite seriously bearing in mind his relationship with Westcott,a deputy coroner.
Finally for something of an insight into his mental state see Flying Roll V 'Imagination' where Berridge talks about protecting himself from 'psychic vampires'.
A freemason,yes,The Freemasons no.
All the best.

[JDow]

I'm being cheeky

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_G5EPNEHDo

J

[RivkahChaya]

Hi Rivkah
I'm sorry,it wasn't my intention to put you to so much trouble for what was only a semi serious bit of speculation.

That was no trouble. I read biblical Hebrew, and I have a bible in Hebrew bookmarked, plus Hebrew fonts in Word. The transliterations looked so odd on that second one, that I couldn't help sitting down and playing with them a little, to figure out what they could possibly be.

[Ron Beckett]

Juwes

I came in late, but knowing all about D'onston Stephensons letter I thought it looked like "Juives".

But looking again it could be "Ounces" or "Quinces" or "Jiuves". Old Jewry Lane is a nice touch on an old theme.

[RivkahChaya]

Why is a misspelling of "Jews" so difficult for people? It's the most unusual word in the sentence, so if there is going to be a word the writer has never used before, it's going to be that one. "Blamed" is probably the second most unusual, but more phonetic, and less subject to being sounded out wrong. All the rest of the words are really, really common.

Besides, everyone at the time thought it was a misspelling of "Jews"; why consult the chief rabbi otherwise?

And here's another thought:

For the record, I do not believe in a masonic conspiracy, and think anything along those lines is total crap, however, if there were a conspiracy, and Warren or someone high up were involved, I would think one very smart thing would be to attribute the murders to different people, rather than look for one killer. However, it seems pretty well-known that the police were looking for a single killer. The police had more control over what information the press got, so the police could have played up any differences, and not released information about similarities. Yes, I realize that reporters could attend inquests, but I think the information included in an inquest might have been limited, if the inquest was just a puppet show, and the police already knew what had happened.

Also, even though the press had some of the letters, at least one person was arrested for a hoax. The police could have made a bigger deal of the fact that they suspected all the letters of being hoaxes.

If the writing was erased as part of a masonic conspiracy the police were involved in, probably everyone who saw it would have been told to forget about it, rather than being questioned about it, and asked to recall it later.

In short, if the message were from someone trying to narc on the masons, I don't think the information on the graffito would even have come down to us.

Another point: if the graffito was really someone trying to narc on the masons, then at least one person who was in on the conspiracy, at least to some small degree, decided he wasn't happy about it, and wanted to reveal it. If one person tried to come clean, it's unusual that in all the time afterwards, no one else did.

[sleekviper]

I was just looking at this, and had a thought. Probably about as wrong as it gets but if this was converted to archaic Latin, and back to English, doesn't this simply say, "No man will be wrongly blamed!"??? Archaic Latin doesn't have the letters J,U,W does it? They would drop out, as would "Will" become "ill" which translate as "wrongly". So the end of Juwes leaves the "es", translating as "be", the double negative becomes a firm stance as in Greek, so wouldn't this firmly state, "No man will be wrongly Blamed!" Well, was a thought, not into Latin so no idea how it would work at all or if it would.

[Fantomas]

Hi Moonbegger,
The only possible connection I can think of that may have caused a problem for Warren is that he must have known Golden Dawn founder William Wynn Westcott as Westcott later became master of the Quautor Coronati lodge of which Warren was a founder member.
If there was a prostitute killer in the Golden Dawn it would have been Edward William Berridge,although the source is demented, Aleister Crowleys' novel 'Moonchild' which is primarily a somewhat hysterical slander of former members and associates.
Still,for what it's worth,the character based on Berridge 'Balloch' kills a prostitute after a bizarre marriage ceremony, the line following the events something like 'who would worry about the death of a poor prostitute'.
Berridge is an interesting character,a doctor and homeopathist, also according to Sue Young histories something of a sex pest.
Another source states he was a follower of Thomas Lake Harris,and his insistence on psychosexual theory led to Annie Horniman resigning from the Golden Dawn.
Another source states he was a practitioner of Karezza,a form of tantric sex, intercourse without orgasm.
In 1895 he threatened Golden Dawn members with 'death from a syncope' if they revealed secrets, the Golden Dawn website seems to take this quite seriously bearing in mind his relationship with Westcott,a deputy coroner.
Finally for something of an insight into his mental state see Flying Roll V 'Imagination' where Berridge talks about protecting himself from 'psychic vampires'.
A freemason,yes,The Freemasons no.
All the best.

Intriguing. Why, in the conspiracy-minded seam of Ripper suspects, has Wynn Westcott never been fingered? His biography has him plucked and ready for the pot for a conspiracy theory:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Wynn_Westcott

[Pierre]

I think I have solved this.

I believe Jack the Ripper wrote it and wanted to communicate with the police.

There is a clear explanation to it and it throws light on his motive.

Regards Pierre

[GUT]

I believe Jack the Ripper wrote it and wanted to communicate with the police.

There is a clear explanation to it and it throws light on his motive.

Regards Pierre

Proof Pierre?