New twist on old message

[Robert]

In the case of Eddowes, there was the rather nasty problem of the faecal matter. This might be why he took the piece of apron. Mind you, I suppose he could have got faecal matter on his hands with Chapman too.

[Errata]

Hi Errata,

I confess to not knowing there was that quantity involved. That seemed a lot, so I did a quick Google search (for which I apologise profusely if you're medically qualified yourself):

According to a Margaret A Hawley MD (presumably a Doctor of Medicine):

"The average weight of an adult human kidney is approximately one-quarter pound. Each kidney is approximately 4 inches long, 2.5 inches wide, and 1.5 inches thick.

The kidney receives about 20 percent of the blood coming from the heart each time it beats. The rate of blood flow through both kidneys is approximately 1.2 liters per minute"

If she's right I can't see how a litre would be possible, as the volume of the kidney itself would be insufficient surely?

As for the nearby graffito, the only thing I'm sure about is that it shouldn't have been erased; not because it was definitely connected to the Eddowes murder, but because it could have been, and because the City Police, whose murder exhibit it might be, wished to photograph it.

I was going to ask why JtR took a cloth from Eddowes, but not from Chapman, but then realised that he may have done: perhaps he didn't just cut the bottom edge of her pocket, but took the bottom half of it to hold her abstracted uterus. Maybe...perhaps.

Regards, Bridewell.

Yeah, I'm not qualified in the slightest. I just looked it up, and forgot to divide by two. Half a liter. 17 ounces. I mean, the whole thing is a blood filter was the point, and not either an empty sac or a muscle. Sacs like a uterus or a stomach aren't that blood ridden, and muscles like the heart or intestines tend to hold on to blood. Kidneys and livers entire weight is blood. Major arteries and veins go in and out like the heart, so there is a lot of blood just from excising those organs, but then the organ itself starts to let of of it's contents, and that's just a mess. Though I confess, I have no idea what happens if you try to wring out a kidney.

[Wickerman]

Theres about a liter of blood in the average kidney. So thats rather a lot for a solid organ. I'm not sure the entire apron would prevent dripping.

Hi Errata.
I'm sure you are aware the physical volume of a liter is greater than the physical size of a kidney.
In fact I had understood it was the uterus which would be oozing blood, the kidney would bleed very little.

Regards, Jon S.
(Psst....I was only joking about the leather bag)

[Cogidubnus]

Though I confess, I have no idea what happens if you try to wring out a kidney.

If I don't get caught at the local supermarket tomorrow, I'll let you know!

Dave

[Wickerman]

If I don't get caught at the local supermarket tomorrow, I'll let you know!

Dave

A kidney only filters blood, it doesn't store it. A kidney is essentially a solid mass with tubes running through it. Squeeze a kidney and you'll get a handfull of squished kidney

Regards, Jon S.

[Errata]

Hi Errata.
I'm sure you are aware the physical volume of a liter is greater than the physical size of a kidney.
In fact I had understood it was the uterus which would be oozing blood, the kidney would bleed very little.

Regards, Jon S.
(Psst....I was only joking about the leather bag)

No, the uterus is essentially a sac of muscle. It has no contents, so it's somewhat akin to carrying around a raw steak. A kidney is sort of like a firm sponge, and we know sponges can hold more than their volume of water. Or is it more than their mass? Allergies are killing me I swear...

[Stephen Thomas]

Theres about a liter of blood in the average kidney.

Blimey, I hadn't realised that Americans knew what a litre was, let alone that they don't spell it properly. Do Canadians spell it 'liter'?

Half a litre is 7/8 of a pint by the way.

Pour a half litre can of beer into a pint glass and it almost fills it.

[Robert]

Would a diseased kidney have less blood in it?

[Errata]

Would a diseased kidney have less blood in it?

Depends on the disease. Blood HAS to go through the kidney. There isn't really an alternate route. Any disease that constricts blood flow at all would result in less blood in the kidney. And I think any condition that changes the texture of the kidney (like cancer) would do the same. But if you are thinking alcohol related kidney failure, that just changes what happens to the blood whilst in the kidney, in that it doesn't filter out toxins efficiently, or at all. Think of the kidney as a Sham Wow. The only thing that affects how much a Sham Wow can absorb is how much water is spilled, or if it starts to fray and fall apart, losing it's absorbancy.

And yes we know what litres are. And yes, correct American spelling is for some reason "Liters". And I used to spell it the British way, until I had a teacher counting 5 points off on tests for "sounding pretentious".

[Robert]

Then maybe Errata you can direct me to an online version of "The Liter Side Of My Official Life."

[moonbegger]

Why soil a perfectly well made, expensive, and otherwise useful leather bag with an organ oozing blood?
Surely, that is why he took such a large piece of apron in the first place?

Regards, Jon S.

Hi Wickerman , the point i was making in my original post , and also my subsequent post is that i find it hard to beleive that the writer of the GSG , being the killer, or accomplice would have needed any kind of container , be it an expensive leather bag or a shabby cardboard box for that matter, due my assumption that the GSG was done a few hours before the double event, And that maybe the apron was thrown down beneath it on the way back from the Eddows murder with the sole reason being to authenticate it . i was simply asking the question "what other reason would the killer have for throwing away evidence , that he didnt really need to throw away ? " bearing in mind the assumption of many [ Not Me ] that the killer wrote or didnt write the message whilst having in possesion a lot more blood and gore than Cathy's apron .

moonbegger

[bolo]

Hi Errata,

are you sure the human kidney is able to hold a whole Liter (this is how it's spelt over here with a capital "L", btw.) of blood? Even if it has some sponge-like qualities, a Liter of the proper red stuff seems too much for an organ of its size.

Regards,

Boris

[Errata]

Hi Errata,

are you sure the human kidney is able to hold a whole Liter (this is how it's spelt over here with a capital "L", btw.) of blood? Even if it has some sponge-like qualities, a Liter of the proper red stuff seems too much for an organ of its size.

Regards,

Boris

No. It's half a liter. I forgot to divide by two.

[Cogidubnus]

Half a litre Boris...it transpires the litre was for both kidneys

Dave

[bolo]

Hi Errata and Dave,

thanks for the clarification, sounds much more plausible.

Regards,

Boris