The meaning of the GSG wording

[caz]

Hi All,

I do wonder about some people's motivation for downplaying or ignoring the numerous glaring similarities between these two extremely rare prostitute murders, and concluding that they should be attributed to two independent murderers on the exisiting evidence. Why should they?

Assuming there is no agenda, no theory to support, no pet suspect with an alibi for one of them, what benefit can there possibly be from taking a default position that presumes a second slick knifeman was active at the same time and place (relatively speaking), targeting the identical victim type, only to vanish like the other one into the night, leaving us with nothing whatsoever to identify him by?

Then follows the presumption that the GSG was chalked hours earlier by a third unidentifiable person, when it could quite reasonably have appeared there within seconds of the apron being dropped and be related to it by the same offending hand, since the writing was noticed as soon as the apron was picked up, but not apparently before.

We know double events happen, where one repeat offender is responsible. What I have yet to see on these threads is a documented double event night, very much like the one on Sept 30 1888, where it turned out that two men had acted independently - against all the odds I would have to say at this point.

Love,

Caz
X

[Simon Wood]

Hi Caz,

What glaring similarities? Stride and Eddowes couldn't have been more different.

Why does the coincidence of two murderers acting independently on the same night need to repeat itself in order to support the idea that it happened on 30th September 1888? Some things happen just once.

There is no evidence to link the murders of Stride and Eddowes.

Unless, of course, you buy into the oh-so timely Saucy Jacky postcard.

Regards,

Simon

[Steven Russell]

We know double events happen, where one repeat offender is responsible. What I have yet to see on these threads is a documented double event night, very much like the one on Sept 30 1888, where it turned out that two men had acted independently - against all the odds I would have to say at this point.

Love,

Caz
X

This, I feel, is an excellent and very pertinent point.

Following a post I made some time ago regarding the Cambridge Rapist having been frustrated in an attack and gone on to perpetrate another straight away, caz was able to supply several other examples of 'double events'.

Best wishes,
Steve.

[Wickerman]

Hi All,

I do wonder about some people's motivation for downplaying or ignoring the numerous glaring similarities between these two extremely rare prostitute murders, and concluding that they should be attributed to two independent murderers on the exisiting evidence. Why should they?

Caz, if Coles had been murdered on the same night as Stride then you would have an argument, in fact there likely would never have been an issue.

Have you compared the murder of Coles with that of Stride?
Here you have two very similar murders, but Eddowes & Stride are not so similar.

Regards, Jon S.

[caz]

I have no problem with considering Coles as another potential victim of the Whitechapel Murderer (singular), who had killed at least three others.

I'd have more of a problem considering Stride and Coles the victims of one killer, with Eddowes et al the victims of another.

It's hard enough for me to imagine that Tabram, Stride and Kelly could have been killed by three one-off prostitute killers in those few short weeks of 1888, during which one man offed three: Nichols, Chapman and Eddowes.

Love,

Caz
X

[lynn cates]

motives and motives

Hello Caz. Out of curiosity, why must they be prostitute killers? Surely there are other motives for murder?

Cheers.
LC

[Bridewell]

No Evidence?

Hi Caz,

What glaring similarities? Stride and Eddowes couldn't have been more different.

Why does the coincidence of two murderers acting independently on the same night need to repeat itself in order to support the idea that it happened on 30th September 1888? Some things happen just once.

There is no evidence to link the murders of Stride and Eddowes.

Unless, of course, you buy into the oh-so timely Saucy Jacky postcard.

Regards,

Simon

Hi Simon,

Stride was a prostitute. Eddowes too, in all probability. Both were killed on the same night within half a mile of each other. Both were in their 40's and both were, in all probability, alcoholic.

Evidence to link the murders, as opposed to just the suspects? Modus operandi. Both had their left carotid artery severed, Eddowes completely, Stride almost so. Both sustained cuts commencing about two and a half inches below the left ear and about 6" in length. In both cases a sharp knife was used and the victim probably attacked from the right side. The one essential difference is the lack of mutilation in the case of Stride which the police, at the time, believed was because the offender was disturbed and vented his spleen elsewhere. That seems entirely plausible.

If a similar modus operandi is "no evidence" of a link, I would have to ask what there is to link any of the Ripper murders.

The Saucy Jack? Probably a hoax, but only probably. The matter has not been proven one way or the other. Whoever wrote it was in the London area at the time and, if not the Ripper, clearly believed, like the police, that the same hand dispatched both women.

[Bridewell]

Just as an additional thought:
If the Dear Boss and Saucy Jack are the hoaxes which most of us believe them to be, what evidence is there that the Ripper victims were killed because they were prostitutes? Why not because they were alcoholic or because they were female and drunk?
Someone tell me if I'm wrong, but isn't the only "evidence" that the victims were killed because they were prostitutes a claim made in the Dear Boss letter? If it's not by the killer, though, it's not evidence, surely?

I've just realised this is drifting from the topic of a GSG thread. Apologies.

[lynn cates]

points to ponder

Hello Bridewell. Don't forget:

1. Polly and Annie, 2 cuts to the throat; Kate, only 1.

2. Polly and Annie, knife traveled down; Kate, up.

3. Polly and Annie, dress lifted up; Kate, clothing cut.

I could go on and on, but I spare you.

Ah, but Jack was not a robot? Then why discuss a link anyway?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

2 points

Hello (again) Bridewell.

"If the Dear Boss and Saucy Jack are the hoaxes which most of us believe them to be, what evidence is there that the Ripper victims were killed because they were prostitutes?"

Good point.

By the way, if there is nothing in the DB and SJ, why were they written? To sell a paper? How is that done with a letter locked up in a bureau?

Cheers.
LC

[ChrisGeorge]

Just as an additional thought:
If the Dear Boss and Saucy Jack are the hoaxes which most of us believe them to be, what evidence is there that the Ripper victims were killed because they were prostitutes? Why not because they were alcoholic or because they were female and drunk?
Someone tell me if I'm wrong, but isn't the only "evidence" that the victims were killed because they were prostitutes a claim made in the Dear Boss letter? If it's not by the killer, though, it's not evidence, surely?

I've just realised this is drifting from the topic of a GSG thread. Apologies.

Yes but prostitutes are victims in many sexual serial killer cases. They make for easy targets, are out at all times of night, often in ill lit areas, won't be missed like other women, etc. Dear Boss and Saucy Jack really have nothing to do with the choice of target -- whomever wrote those missives was in a way just stating the obvious about the women being prostitutes.

Chris

[DVV]

Hi Lynn

I could go on and on, but I spare you.

You could go on and on as well pointing out dissimilarities between Polly and Annie, and similarities shared by all murders.

Ah, but Jack was not a robot?

Annie, unlike Polly, wouldn't have followed a robot.

[lynn cates]

horsing around

Hello David. Well, whatever dissimilarities Polly and Annie shared, it was not that both were killed near a horse slaughter yard.

Cheers.
LC

[Tom_Wescott]

1. Polly and Annie, 2 cuts to the throat; Kate, only 1.

You think?

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[DVV]

Hello David. Well, whatever dissimilarities Polly and Annie shared, it was not that both were killed near a horse slaughter yard.

Cheers.
LC

Yep, that's true my dear.