The meaning of the GSG wording

[Abby Normal]

There's a reason why lawyers aren't trained in the creative arts, Tom.

Your right its called money

[lynn cates]

e

Hello Mac.

"Anyone really going with the evidence would say:"

e: Jack whom?

Cheers.
LC

[caz]

There is NO PROVEN link between the murders of Eddowes and Stride beyond the day.

There is no PROVEN link between apron-piece and writing other than juxtaposition (and on that see my remarks earlier in this post).

The links you propose are circumstantial and suppositious - I would have less objection if you flagged them up as such and NOT as proven conclusions.

Phil

Hi Phil,

Considering there is very little that is PROVEN about this case, and the bare facts we have at our disposal have given us a thousand gaps and very few proven conclusions (hence the enormous number of debates that have been ongoing here since casebook began), I'm not sure on what grounds you can seriously object to others exploring potential links, keeping potential clues in mind and speculating about what could have made the killer, or killers tick. The bare facts are not up for debate, but everything else is, or you and I would not be on a thread discussing the (unknown and unknowable) meaning of the GSG!

I know what I'm doing here. Do you?

What circumstantial or suppositious links have I flagged up as 'proven conclusions'? I thought I always made it pretty clear when I was reciting bald facts and when I was speculating, based on those facts.

Love,

Caz
X

[Tom_Wescott]

There is NO PROVEN link between the murders of Eddowes and Stride beyond the day.

You mean between the 45 minutes and matter of yards that separated them. Oh, and the sharp knife to the throat of a middle-aged prostitute. Who knows, maybe there's no link between the two planes that hit those two towers in New York.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Wickerman]

There is NO PROVEN link between the murders of Eddowes and Stride beyond the day.

You mean between the 45 minutes and matter of yards that separated them. Oh, and the sharp knife to the throat of a middle-aged prostitute. Who knows, maybe there's no link between the two planes that hit those two towers in New York.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

And, maybe there's a link between the Aldgate Post Office robbery and Eddowes murder?

[Pontius2000]

honestly I can't read through 37 pages of comments before writing a response to the original thread, but:


there were Jewish witnesses at both the Stride and Eddowes murders which immediately preceded the graffiti, so how about, "Don't blame those Jews for any of this, they carry none of the blame"

[Tom_Wescott]

And, maybe there's a link between the Aldgate Post Office robbery and Eddowes murder?

I've often wondered that.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Monty]

There is NO PROVEN link between the murders of Eddowes and Stride beyond the day.

You mean between the 45 minutes and matter of yards that separated them. Oh, and the sharp knife to the throat of a middle-aged prostitute. Who knows, maybe there's no link between the two planes that hit those two towers in New York.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Yards?

Monty

[Malcolm X]

Buffoonery and selective reasing are the comments i wouldmake on many posts in this thread.

Think about it, those of you who want to complicate matters - contrary to Abby's utterly nonsensical post - wherever the apron-piece was found, it HAD to be in juxtaposition to SOMETHING be it a building or whatever. Had it been found under a poster pasted on a wall, or a street market stall, you'd be trying to show some link.

While there may be a link my point is that there is no proof that apron and writing did not come together accidentally, and in the absence of any conclusive link or even a concensus on the meaning of the words, the LOGICAL conclusion is to assume NO LINK.

As Jon S said:

Proximity does not constitute evidence. Association must be demonstrated, or better, proved. Remember the leather apron in the yard at No. 29 Hanbury St.? Just because another artifact lays close by does not mean we should assume a connection.

Caz:

I wish someone could finally explain to me, after yet another long debate on this supposed irrelevance, why 'ordinary' is the more logical stance to adopt here, and why the message could not have been one more 'out of the ordinary' discovery that night.

It is the right approach because it ASSUMES least.

There is NO PROVEN link between the murders of Eddowes and Stride beyond the day.

There is no PROVEN link between apron-piece and writing other than juxtaposition (and on that see my remarks earlier in this post).

The links you propose are circumstantial and suppositious - I would have less objection if you flagged them up as such and NOT as proven conclusions.

Phil

with this sitting on the fence that you're so good at, you couldn't catch a cold let alone JTR.

[Steven Russell]

There is NO PROVEN link between the murders of Eddowes and Stride beyond the day.

You mean between the 45 minutes and matter of yards that separated them. Oh, and the sharp knife to the throat of a middle-aged prostitute. Who knows, maybe there's no link between the two planes that hit those two towers in New York.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Totally agree.

Steve.

[DVV]

[QUOTE=Tom_Wescott;197670Who knows, maybe there's no link between the two planes that hit those two towers in New York.

[/QUOTE]

[Monty]

There is NO PROVEN link between the murders of Eddowes and Stride beyond the day.

You mean between the 45 minutes and matter of yards that separated them. Oh, and the sharp knife to the throat of a middle-aged prostitute. Who knows, maybe there's no link between the two planes that hit those two towers in New York.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Crap comparison, seeing as responsibility was claimed beyond doubt.

Maybe you should come up with something more relevant Tom.

Monty

[Wickerman]

I guess this was just too subtle.

And, maybe there's a link between the Aldgate Post Office robbery and Eddowes murder?

What I was implying Tom, was that if you choose to think that 'time' and 'proximity' suggest an obvious connection between Berner St. & Mitre Sq. then what about the 'time' and 'proximity' of the Aldgate Post Office robbery?

As you say....(re: Berner St. & Mitre Sq.)

45 minutes and matter of yards that separated them.

The same could be said of the time the robbery took place with reference to the Eddowes murder. Although there is no certainty of the 'time' the robbery did take place, it was deemed likely to have been over Sat. night into Sunday morning.

I'm saying that the 'time' & 'proximity' argument (Berner St.-Mitre Sq.) does not hold any significance even though such arguments are often worded to imply an obvious connection.
Typically in support of a theory.

Regards, Jon S.

[Bridewell]

The Hulse Version

Hi
This thread is for what you think the wording of the GSG means, if it was written by the killer (I think it probably was). Please no debates on whether it was written by the killer or not-Lets assume it was.

So what does it mean?

"The Juwes are the men that will not be blamed for nothing"

.

Forgive me if someone has covered this earlier in the thread and I missed it, but there is also Dc Halse's version:

"The Juwes are not The men That Will be Blamed For Nothing".

although, in my experience, it is more likely to be the uniformed officer, (rather than his detective colleague) who made a contemporaneous record of the exact wording. I find it harder to make sense of the Halse version, so Long's is probably correct. (Thank you, Superintendent Arnold & Sir Charles Warren for muddying the waters on that one!). I confess I hadn't previously made the connection, referred to earlier in the thread, that the GSG might be an attack on Schwartz and/or Lawende. On balance I have to go with one of the following:

"The Jews are doing all this and getting away with it"
or (less likely in my view)
"The Jews are going to get the blame for this, and rightly so".

If the GSG is genuine, as postulated in this thread, it has the same kind of unlikely mis-spelling of an easy word as is found in the Lusk letter, but not in the Dear Boss & Saucy Jack.

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Wick,

And you might have noticed my reply. There COULD be a connection between Eddowes' murder and the post office robbery. But if there's no, so what? On a late Saturday night, I'm sure many crimes were taking place. Only two stranger knife murders, though.

Monty,

Crap comparison? Perhaps, but since what you're suggesting is an anomaly (two prostitute murders in the same area and time that are totally unrelated), I don't think I could find a comparison that would pass muster.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott