The meaning of the GSG wording

[ChrisGeorge]

Hey Chris,

They noted it as potential evidence, not ascertained fact.

The case is ridiculed with such, the Leather apron in the yard in Hanbury Street, the envelope at the same location. Both explained via investigation.

The same lays for the writing. Just that no definate conclusion drawn. So to stae the police felt the killer wrote it, when we have nothing of the sort on official casefile (and rightly so, as it wasn't proven) is wrong.

Monty

Hi Monty

You asked me to "point out where the Police 'readily accepted as fact' that the killer wrote it". I would ask you to point to any instance where any policeman expressed doubts that it was written by the killer. As I stated in my earlier post, a number of police officials expressed doubts that Dear Boss had been sent by the killer, but I am not aware of any statement by a policeman that the graffito was not written by the murderer. That seems to be a modern view not a contemporary police view.

All the best

Chris

[Monty]

Hi Chris,

That's my point, there is nothing on the officia file stating the Police felt the killer did or did not write it. So to state the police believed it was authored by Jack is wrong. Just as to state it certainly was not Jack.

Off the top off my head Arnold, who was at the scene, stated a belief Jack did not write it, as did Dew (who was not present - like Anderson).

Monty

[ChrisGeorge]

Hi Chris,

That's my point, there is nothing on the officia file stating the Police felt the killer did or did not write it. So to state the police believed it was authored by Jack is wrong. Just as to state it certainly was not Jack.

Off the top off my head Arnold, who was at the scene, stated a belief Jack did not write it, as did Dew (who was not present - like Anderson).

Monty

Hey Monty

I am not saying Jack wrote it, although the proximity of the graffito to the piece of apron might indicate that he did write it, as the police I believe thought. Thanks for your point that you think Arnold and Dew expressed doubts about the killer having written the graffito. I'll check into that. I just know that in regard to the graffito you don't get the same sort of later pontificating by police officials that it was not by the killer as you do with Dear Boss.

Cheers

Chris

[Monty]

True Chris,

The aprons location brings the writing into play, its the reason why it was taken as evidence.

I'm at the football just now, freezing my monkeys off, but if I suggest you read Warrens 6th Oct report, I think Arnolds views are contained in an attachment.

As for Dew, I could have only got it from Connells re work of Dews book I caught Crippen.

I could be wrong but I think Insp Reid held a similar view. Don't hold me to that.

Monty

[ChrisGeorge]

True Chris,

The aprons location brings the writing into play, its the reason why it was taken as evidence.

I'm at the football just now, freezing my monkeys off, but if I suggest you read Warrens 6th Oct report, I think Arnolds views are contained in an attachment.

As for Dew, I could have only got it from Connells re work of Dews book I caught Crippen.

I could be wrong but I think Insp Reid held a similar view. Don't hold me to that.

Monty

Thanks, Monty, I'll follow up those leads.

I have long said that the police initially took Dear Boss as the real McCoy, from the killer, despite what some of them later wrote -- because why else would they have put it on a poster asking the public if they recognized the handwriting?

For me, one thing followed from the other: the concensus among the police was that the graffito was by the killer, and that he also wrote the letters. Yes, that might have been a mistake to think that way but nonetheless, it appears to me that's the way their thinking went, at least at first when they saw both the inscription and Dear Boss.

All the best

Chris

[Hunter]

Hi everyone, Phil.H asked me what message was ment by the graffito, very differcult question to answer, as the graffito could mean so many thing's. One could be the following - Something had ocurred in the East End or was presently happening. The person who wrote the graffito (who could of been many) wanted the blame to be directed to "him" doing the happening's in the East End and not to throw blame on the (whole) Jewish community. All the best, Agur.

In other words, "Stop blaming the Jews for this. I did it... See sample below."

[ChrisGeorge]

In other words, "Stop blaming the Jews for this. I did it... See sample below."

The problem with reading it that way is that it can be read the opposite way. "I did it. Blame the Jews for making me do it -- there's a lot to blame the Jews for." Or similar.

[mariab]

"I did it. Blame the Jews for making me do it -- there's a lot to blame the Jews for." Or similar.

Hey, this is how I read it! I wonder what Chris George thinks about the fact that the GSG is a 13 syllable iambic verse and that, in my opinion, the length of the phrase and the double negative might be the result of this fact?

[ChrisGeorge]

If I'm not mistaken, a Shakespearean pentameter counts as 10 syllables because the last (11th syllable) doesn't count.
To-be-or-not-to-be,-that-is-the-ques-tion. (iambic, technically 11 syllables)
The-Ju-wes-are-the-men-that-won't-be-blamed-for-no-thing. (iambic, technically 13 syllables, in French known as a 12-syllable aléxandrin)
Iambic, 13 syllables is a meter used by Homer (in the original), by the by! Insert a very big LOL here.

The problem with reading it that way is that it can be read the opposite way. "I did it. Blame the Jews for making me do it -- there's a lot to blame the Jews for." Or similar.

Hey, this is how I read it! I wonder what Chris George thinks about the fact that the GSG is a 13 syllable iambic verse and that, in my opinion, the length of the phrase and the double negative might be the result of this fact?

Hi Maria

Yes I did catch your post that the GSG is written in iambic verse. I am a poet but not a poet who generally writes in meter so I don't judge myself totally qualified to comment on the iambs. People back then did often quote poetry in their writings so it's not unimpossible that the metrical pattern is meant. Although, if so, it would indicate, I think, that the writer was educated, doesn't it? Hmmmm.

The layout with the capital letters at the beginning of each line is also reminiscent of verse.

All the best

Chris

[mariab]

Hi Maria
Yes I did catch your post that the GSG is written in iambic verse. I am a poet but not a poet who generally writes in meter so I don't judge myself totally qualified to comment on the iambs.

Thank you so much for commenting, Mr. George.
I've read some of your poetry over at JTRForums and have noticed your preferance for free verse.

People back then did often quote poetry in their writings so it's not unimpossible that the metrical pattern is meant. Although, if so, it would indicate, I think, that the writer was educated, doesn't it? Hmmmm.

What I know is that even uneducated Victorians were partly familiar with the “greatest hits“ of theater and opera. It's documented that the Marseillaise and the “revolution duet“ from Auber's opera La muette de Portici {The mute girl from Portici} were frequently sung in Spitalfields, esp. in political intent. I'm also reminded that scenes from Shakespeare's plays were frequently (mis)performed in market fairs, as hilariously depicted by Dickens and in Huckleberry Finn, to cite 2 examples.

The layout with the capital letters at the beginning of each line is also reminiscent of verse.

Wow, this had totally escaped my attention! There is something here...

[Wickerman]

So the killer could have been making a statement with the graffito plus the bloodied apron...

Hi Chris.
If you think the apron conveyed the message "hey, look here", with the intent of drawing attention to the graffiti, then I would expect the graffiti to also have this "look at me" quality, large, bold & brazen.
But what we have in the graffiti is a small, insignificant but poetic slur.
The intent doesn't seem to match.

They seem to eminate from two different worlds.

One is brazen and disturbing (apron), while the other is timid & innocuous almost apologetic by it's size (graffiti).

Regards, Jon S.

[Steven Russell]

Much has been said about double negatives. What about "not unimpossible"? It's the triple! Burt Lancaster would be proud.

Best wishes,
Steve.

[mariab]

To Wickerman:
Even the piece of apron is a relatively subtle/obscure piece of evidence. Truly brazen and disturbing would have been to deposit the organs there.

Much has been said about double negatives. What about "not unimpossible"? It's the triple! Burt Lancaster would be proud.

Why Burt Lancaster? I'm getting a headache trying to seize the meaning of "not unimpossible". ;-)

[Steven Russell]

You must have seen Trapeze? It's a great movie where B. Lancaster plays a former trapeze star who takes a young Tony Curtis under his wing. Anyway, he's always on about "The triple".

[Varqm]

The writer most likely was not well educated . I lean towards the graffito's meaning as either the jews as a people/men won't be blamed and do nothing-they would strike back or the jews are the type of people/men that are blamed for a reason... a reaction about something. No escape .. there is just that small chance the ripper wrote it.