The "REAL" Article

[JSchmidt]

Well, there are instances of muti killings or to use a better term medicine murders where parts of the victim are used in magical practice to improve the health of either the magician or a beneficiary, but they are a 20th century/21st century thing on the British isles.
Refer to this article on Wikipedia. The most prominent case is the "torso in the thames" case of 2001.

[Sam Flynn]

I agree, however a few authorities claim that the Masons actually used the word "Juwes." Even if it is a Masonic word...

The thing that bugs me about this is that, if it was meant to refer to "Jubela, Jubelo and Jubelum/Jubelem", then surely it would have been abbreviated to "Jubes" (or perhaps "Jues", at best). To put it another way - where did the "W" in "JuWes" come from, and why wasn't it a "B" in any case? No matter how mysterious and/or inhomogeneous the Masons may have been, they were not illiterate. The whole "Juwe" thing just doesn't make sense.

[Christine]

The thing that bugs me about this is that, if it was meant to refer to "Jubela, Jubelo and Jubelum/Jubelem", then surely it would have been abbreviated to "Jubes" (or perhaps "Jues", at best). To put it another way - where did the "W" in "JuWes" come from, and why wasn't it a "B" in any case? No matter how mysterious and/or inhomogeneous the Masons may have been, they were not illiterate. The whole "Juwe" thing just doesn't make sense.

I have no idea where the Masons came up with these names in the first place, but the only way I see "Juwe" working for Jubelum, Jubela, and Jubelo is if in fact the term "Juwe" is itself some sort of variant of "Jew." I guess it would have to mean "bad Jew" or something along those lines, as these are supposed to be Old Testament era characters. If it's true (and it probably isn't) it would be vaguely antisemitic in itself.

Alan Moore is the only source I know of that actually cites a Masonic source for "Juwes," although a lot of people repeat the claim as if it were proven.

[Monty]

Jon,

Even as everyday social grafitto it doesn`t make sense,Sam

What do you mean?

Monty

[c.d.]

It might make more sense if we were somehow able to see related graffiti in the same area.

c.d.

[Sam Flynn]

I have no idea where the Masons came up with these names in the first place, but the only way I see "Juwe" working for Jubelum, Jubela, and Jubelo is if in fact the term "Juwe" is itself some sort of variant of "Jew." I guess it would have to mean "bad Jew" or something along those lines, as these are supposed to be Old Testament era characters.

Ingenious, Chris, but the problem is that just about everyone connected to the legend of the building of Solomon's temple - the murdered Hiram Abiff himself - would also have been a Jew. It's all very muddled!

[Sam Flynn]

It might make more sense if we were somehow able to see related graffiti in the same area.

Mon plaisir, CD:

[Jon Guy]

What do you mean?

Hi Neil,

I was referring to the convoluted message contained in the writing.
Foster,Long and Halse copying differing versions.
Even as we discuss it today the message could still be applicable to the murders. It it was everyday Victorian graffito what was the author trying to say ?
Go on then mate, hammer me !!

[Monty]

Jon,

Not going to hammer you Buddy, just wanted the clarification.

Just that to me it does make sense, the problem is that it could apply to various situations and reasons.

Monty

[perrymason]

I believe it was said that the writing was washed off using a wet sponge...would that have been neccesary if the writing was applied to a wet surface?

If Kate's killer wrote the message, and he was the Ripper, why is there no mention specifically of either murder that night in that message? Only a evidentiary link to the second one is found close by, and we dont even know that both writing and apron section were placed by the same man, at the same time. Why no obvious taunt to Police? Why should we consider that this message is from the Whitechapel murderer, when we have reason to believe that no communications to that point were from the "Real" killer?

I think the literal translation...." the Jews will not not be blamed" is an accusation that Juwes have not been blamed for something, or will not be, even though the author seems to feel they should have been. Add that to the fact that a piece of evidence from only the later killing is perhaps left in conjunction with the message. And now consider the first murder, only alledged as a Ripper victim....the only one who was spared mutilations,... because there was no other explanation based on the witnesses statements about the occupation of the yard and the vicinity. All the people on site when Kate is found, are Jewish..and one of the men started out for help yelling that "another" woman has been murdered. In context that statement is alledging that a woman has been killed just like the other women in the area recently....a supposition that was completely baseless considering her single wound.

The "Juwes" Blamed Jack the Ripper for Liz Strides murder from the get-go. Theres your "blame", and the rationale for the writing suggesting that they should have been blamed I believe could be the killer's notion that the International Club members knew the truth about how she dies, and evaded any strong suspicions that one of the members, on-site or having been around after the meeting, was responsible. As proof of his belief, he openly accepted responsibility for killing only the second woman by the apron piece.

If the Ripper wrote the message.....I would say he is unfazed by mutilating someone, but offended by being accused of murders he does not commit..in this case, a victim that shows none of the traditional Ripper post mortem cutting. Thats consistent with many killers feelings of superiority...the Rippers killings are "special", Liz's killing wasnt.

Best regards.

[Observer]

Hi Sam

Didn't know Warren was a Twin

Observer

[Godgifu]

So if he did write this message, which seemed to be important to him, to take the time to write, with a major man hunt going on for him, and a bloody apron behind him, why not just send another letter to the newspapers, with that message on it? The circulation would have been better.

Well, of course it is unsure whether the Ripper wrote any of those newspaper messages at all (or the graffito either, but for our purposes here we'll say he did.) If the paper letters weren't his, I'd think perhaps he wasn't a person much inclined to read newspapers (especially if the spelling mistake wasn't deliberate, there would be very good reason to think he was not too avid a reader!) and if you don't read papers much yourself they are unlikely to be the first thing you think of for getting word out. A poor East-Ender very well might find graffiti one of the more common literary sources in those days.

Now, if he did write any of the newspaper letters, I actually kind of wonder if maybe he didn't try to get the papers to print a similar message but found that for whatever reason they wouldn't -- either didn't have reason to believe it was from the Ripper or just didn't want to be printing stuff about "Juwes" needlessly.
Otherwise, there is that old theory he just wrote it to throw people off the scent with the message hoping people would start looking for a (poor) Jew having done the crimes.

[Jon Guy]

Just that to me it does make sense, the problem is that it could apply to various situations and reasons.

Neil

I have just printed off a copy of Messrs Brown and Bell, the Goulston Street Graffito Debate for some weekend reading.

I have to say that after a quick scan the first half seems quite convincing !!!

[perrymason]

Hi,

Sorry for the sloppy way I made my last post, saying Kates witnesses were only Jewish when I meant the first victim Liz's were...using the spelling "Jews" when discussing the grafitto....tired and sloppy, sorry.

Cheers.

[Jon Guy]

Hi Michael

No worries mate, you`ve seen the stuff I spew out ..!!!

Good point about the writing been the killer distancing himself from the Stride murder. It may explain why the apron was not there at 02.20 !!
The killer may not have even heard about the Stride murder till well after 02.00 am, so he went back out, dropped the apron and wrote the message ?