The GSG - Did Jack write it? POLL

[Elamarna]

It shows that intestines can recoil outwards, and it infers that Eddowes intestines could have recoiled out even further than those shown in the picture having regards to the fact that her abdominal opening went right up to the sternum. So very relevant !

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

Not at all Trevor, no one has ever denied they may have recoiled, just that it is unlikely to be what you suggest. I see no medical support for your view that the intestines could end up by the shoulder, with the attached blood vessels also detached.
Once again thinking backed by nothing.

The picture if showing a body without being disturbed or touched does not back the theory, for want of a better word, you propose.

And the larger the opening the degree of recoil is likely to be reduced, not increased.

Steve

[Elamarna]

Thanks Trevor. The caption says:

"Lust murder on a 13½ year old girl. The victim on the dissection table. The entrails have slipped out of their own accord. Schilling otherwise did nothing to the child"

Thanks Gareth, so on a discepting table, not scene of crime, the intestines moved under own force, probably as result of being moved.

In addition no details on wound, the picture shows little but the wound could be large or small, no way of knowing unless included in text.

Do we know from the Text Trevor if the body was found naked or was she dressed or partially dressed, the Text may not give details of course.

It is possible Nichols was the same.


Steve

[Sam Flynn]

It shows that intestines can recoil outwards, and it infers that Eddowes intestines could have recoiled out even further than those shown in the picture having regards to the fact that her abdominal opening went right up to the sternum. So very relevant !

But, Trevor, intestines aren't coiled springs. No matter how long the abdominal wound is, the intestines certainly aren't going to shoot out and land on the victim's shoulder.

[Sam Flynn]

Thanks Gareth, so on a discepting table, not scene of crime, the intestines moved under own force, probably as result of being moved.

I've edited my post, Steve. I can't really translate precisely what "herausgetreten" means; it literally means "stepped out", but could mean "slipped out". I've settled for "come out" in the end. Whether they stepped, slipped or simply "came out", it's clear that they did so of their own accord ("von selbst herausgetreten").

[Elamarna]

I've edited my post, Steve. I can't really translate precisely what "herausgetreten" means; it literally means "stepped out", but could mean "slipped out". I've settled for "come out" in the end. Whether they stepped, slipped or simply "came out", it's clear that they did so of their own accord ("von selbst herausgetreten").

Which considering the body was moved no one will argue with I am sure.


Steve

[Elamarna]

My point with the photo was that it looked like a mortuary photo and not a scene of crime one.
Point established I think.

As such any intestines potruding can be ascribed to such movement rather than simply the results of the intestines jumping out.


Steve

[jerryd]

Phillips was handed the GS piece at Leman St police station.

He did not take it to the mortuary at Golden Lane till the following day when it was then matched with the piece at the mortuary.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

Then how did Inspector McWilliam see the apron piece from GS matched up at the mortuary by Dr. Brown? He wasn't at the post mortem, was he? McWilliam went directly to the mortuary from the crime scene after the body was removed.

[Wickerman]

Phillips was handed the GS piece at Leman St police station.

He did not take it to the mortuary at Golden Lane till the following day when it was then matched with the piece at the mortuary.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

I'm not disputing the fact Leman St. was dealing with this murder, but Long took the piece to Commercial St.
It only stands to reason Commercial St. will contact Leman St. to get them involved, and Phillips will be called for to look into this personally.

It is also reasonable to believe Phillips took the piece to St. Georges mortuary to see if it belonged to Stride.
As it obviously did not, then Leman St. will communicate with the City Police at the Old Jewry, which may be why Golden Lane mortuary was informed that Phillips is on his way with some potential evidence, but this was the same day not the following day.

[Wickerman]

.. Stuff doesn't get smeared unless something does the smearing,...

Yes, but you seem to mean "intentionally". Smearing is only the result of two surfaces coming together, by accident or by intent. You have assumed the latter.

I'd suggest that the killer, having dirtied his hand(s) when he excised the colon, tried to wipe off as much as he could on the glutinous surface of the extruded bowels,...

Ah, so he should have taken a slice of bowel with him then when he ran through the streets wiping his hands....


Seriously, with all her clothing around him surely he is going to wipe his fingers on some cloth, not some wet & slippery organs.

[Sam Flynn]

Yes, but you seem to mean "intentionally". Smearing is only the result of two surfaces coming together, by accident or by intent. You have assumed the latter

Think of the sequence of events, Jon. He cuts open her belly, pulls her small intestines out and drapes them over her right shoulder. He then goes into the abdomen and starts digging around, removing the uterus and kidney and, in the process, cuts out the descending colon, which is almost certainly where the faecal matter escaped. The killer then puts the section of colon on the pavement parallel with Eddowes' left flank, i.e. opposite where the killer is working. How does excrement get "accidentally" smeared over the rest of the intestines, which are not only on the near side of the killer, but pulled out and draped over Eddowes' shoulders?

Edit: On the point of accident vs intent, the operative phrase is "smeared over". A transient contact between two surfaces would surely not result in a "smearing over", but a "streaking", a "speckling" or some other passive-sounding verb.

Seriously, with all her clothing around him surely he is going to wipe his fingers on some cloth, not some wet & slippery organs.

"Wet and slippery" is quite useful under such circumstances, otherwise soap manufacturers would have gone out of business centuries ago.

[Pierre]

Thank you. Translation anyone?
Anything which says as found at crime scene and nothing moved or rearranged?

And of course it still shows nothing like that suggested of the Ripper Victims.
So somewhat irrelevant anyway.

Steve

It says the victim is 13 years of age, is on a mortuary slab and the intestines have protruted by themselves.

Pierre

[etenguy]

Think of the sequence of events, Jon. He cuts open her belly, pulls her small intestines out and drapes them over her right shoulder. He then goes into the abdomen and starts digging around, removing the uterus and kidney and, in the process, cuts out the descending colon, which is almost certainly where the faecal matter escaped. The killer then puts the section of colon on the pavement parallel with Eddowes' left flank, i.e. opposite where the killer is working. How does excrement get "accidentally" smeared over the rest of the intestines, which are not only on the near side of the killer, but pulled out and draped over Eddowes' shoulders?

Edit: On the point of accident vs intent, the operative phrase is "smeared over". A transient contact between two surfaces would surely not result in a "smearing over", but a "streaking", a "speckling" or some other passive-sounding verb."Wet and slippery" is quite useful under such circumstances, otherwise soap manufacturers would have gone out of business centuries ago.

I wonder if the colon was a mistake. He didn't realise what would spill out and then when soiled he tried to get the **** off him. First on the intestines and then on the apron. Perhaps it adds to the reasons to think he was not an anatomy expert.

[Wickerman]

It only stands to reason Commercial St. will contact Leman St. to get them involved, and Phillips will be called for to look into this personally.

Yes, I'd forgotten PC Long wrote that he & the Insp. hand delivered the piece to Dr Phillips at Leman St.

[Sam Flynn]

It says the victim is 13 years of age, is on a mortuary slab and the intestines have protruted by themselves.

Sehr vielen Dank für das, Pierre, aber ich habe es schon übersetzt

[Pierre]

Sehr vielen Dank für das, Pierre, aber ich habe es schon übersetzt

Gut, und ich habe deine Übersetzung jetzt auch gesehen.

Pierre