Height of GSG a Clue?

[Wickerman]

A few comments:

The author wanted the message as close as possible to the apron or it was nothing out of the ordinary,period, to see the message where it was placed.

Then why not drop it beside a common red-brick wall (white chalk on red-brick) and he could write at his normal, comfortable height?

If the man was 5 ft. 6 to 5 ft. 7 ( an approximation of the average Briton in 1888, be he Welsh,Irish,Anglo,or be he Hebrew ) then its normal that the message would be around 48 inches or so from the ground...even less.

(Or, how to insert square peg into round hole)

Dear, dear Howie..
It is normal practice, when writing on a wall or blackboard, to write at eye level. Eye-level is typically 4-5 inches below your maximum height.

I am 72 inches tall. I can comfortably write on a wall with superior control of my writing hand at 54 or 52 inches. Thats an 18 inch difference from my height. No sweat.

Howie, you're resizing the evidence to fit the crime.
Just face it buddy, a 72 inch high person will comfortably write at 67-68 inch, eye-level.
The kid that wrote the GSG, Jack the Nipper, was barely 4 foot 3 inch tall.

I think your struggling my friend. The thing that has me puzzled is why you need to interpret this in the way you do. Do you have a theory that depends on your argument?

[Howard Brown]

A few comments:

The author wanted the message as close as possible to the apron or it was nothing out of the ordinary,period, to see the message where it was placed.

If the man was 5 ft. 6 to 5 ft. 7 ( an approximation of the average Briton in 1888, be he Welsh,Irish,Anglo,or be he Hebrew ) then its normal that the message would be around 48 inches or so from the ground...even less.

I am 72 inches tall. I can comfortably write on a wall with superior control of my writing hand at 54 or 52 inches. Thats an 18 inch difference from my height. No sweat.

I find it hard to believe that anyone other than an adult would even be considered as writing this sort of message, regardless of which adult wrote it.

A person 50 inches tall would be writing above his eye level to write at 50 inches.

Again, if the writing was at a distance of as low as three feet from the ground, its possible that the message was written at that height for the person ( policeman,preferably) who found the apron to connect it to the apron. He most certainly did not have to sit on the ground...especially if he was in the range of 66 inches tall....all he needed to do was hunch over a little.

[Sam Flynn]

Hi Diana,

I don't think we actually need a textbook containing an approximation of that phrase. It's enough to realise that such a graffito - replete as it is with dodgy grammar, redundancy and idiosyncratic spelling - could easily have been produced by a person of school age and school height; and then compare that to the alternative whereby our Jacky, presumably an adult male of average-ish height, was its author. I know which of those two scenarios sound most likely to me.

[Wickerman]

....If so, we're looking at roughly 50 inches which, coupled with the apparent neatness of the compact "schoolboy hand" might indicate that a schoolboy was indeed the graffito's author...

Precisly!!
And this kid wasn't out at 2:00 am scribbling in the dark, it was already scribbled when the apron was dropped.

So who was this scribbler then, Jack the Lad, or Jack the Nipper?

[diana]

You are right of course, but those verbalizations are not recoverable at this date.

There is a slim chance that in 1888 a schoolboy saw in a schoolbook, probably a reader or a speller a statement something like, "The Jews are the men that are to blame." (By the way I do not in any way endorse the antisemitic sentiment expressed here.) If that book is out of copyright and somewhere online it could be searchable. Education authorities were not nearly as culturally sensitive as they are now.

What textbooks were in vogue in Victorian England?

[Sam Flynn]

Kids tend to parrot what their elders have taught them. If we could find a school textbook from the 1800's with a statement close to the GSG we might be finally home on this issue.

It's as likely, if not moreso, that a kid should parrot what their parents or peer group instilled in them, Di.

[diana]

I did find out that compulsory education was instituted in 1870. On another thread there is a posting of a map of Whitechapel with all the schools marked. Looks like there were quite a few.

[Hellrider]

Did many children in the East End attend school regularly and what was the quality of the schools like? Because, even if they did attent school, they would not have had too many books I guess, because of the relative poverty that reigned in the district. I think many parents would have preferred their children to work instead of going to school longer than was absolutely necessary or mandatory by law (don't know what the minimum limit was back then)

[diana]

Kids tend to parrot what their elders have taught them. If we could find a school textbook from the 1800's with a statement close to the GSG we might be finally home on this issue.

What springs to mind is the McGuffy Readers which were used in the US. However I have scanned them (briefly) and don't recall any such antisemitic sentiments. I also tend to think that England probably had her own readers. It is unlikely that a textbook would contain a double negative like this so the quote wouldn't be exact.

[Sam Flynn]

Interesting points, Diana. Was it Halse who said that the black dado came to a height of about 4 feet above the ground? If so, we're looking at roughly 50 inches which, coupled with the apparent neatness of the compact "schoolboy hand" might indicate that a schoolboy was indeed the graffito's author. Its being written by a child would tally with the idiosyncratic spelling of "Juwes", the somewhat redundant "are the men", as well as the infamous double negative in one fell swoop.

[diana]

One aspect of the GSG which might be helpful to assess is its height on the wall. Having been an elementary school teacher for ten years, I can testify that the neatest handwriting on a horizontal surface occurs at eye level. We are told the GSG was written in a neat schoolboy hand.

With care it is possible to write neatly above eyelevel (reaching up) but it is harder and would not be done unless there was a special reason.

The farther you try to write below eye level the more your handwriting deteriorates. This can be compensated for by sitting on a chair or the floor to write.

Anyone with access to a horizontal surface can test this and unless you are incredibly dexterous you will find that it is almost impossible to produce a neat schoolboy hand writing at or below waist level while standing erect. Bending over improves the result somewhat but it is still awkward and the outcome less than perfect.

Since we are talking about a neat schoolboy hand I would estimate that the very youngest the writer could possibly be would be about 8.

If the GSG was at the top of the wall then we are almost certainly dealing with an adult. Of course it would be possible for a child to stand on a chair or reach up but why would he?

If we are dealing with the bottom of the wall, then in order for any writer, child or adult to produce a neat schoolboy hand they would have had to be sitting on the ground. Would Jack have stopped and sat on the ground while running from the police?

The middle is more problematic. First we have to allow for the fact that people have been getting bigger over the last 100 years. As a guess I would think that average male height today is somewhere in the neighborhood of 5 feet 10 inches. Maybe in 1888 it was closer to 5 feet 8 inches?

From this I can infer that anything above 68 inches was probably written by an adult.

An 8 year old would be about 36 to 40 inches, so anything written below that level infers that the person would have been sitting.

If the GSG was written at a level between 40 and say 50 inches we are probably talking about either a child or an adult who has bent himself into an exceedingly uncomfortable and awkward position.

Of course the writer was influenced by the height of the black dado. He didn’t want to write with white on white or it wouldn’t be seen.

Nevertheless the neatness of the writing and its height may provide enough constraints for us to make some assumptions.