Height of GSG a Clue?

[Howard Brown]

Unless I'm built funny, my general shoulder height is around 54 inches...top o' the shoulder to middle of upperarm.

The shoulder height of a person in the 5 ft. 6 to 5' 0" tall range would be roughly 48 inches high or so to 42 inches. Arnold,of course,as SPE kindly reminded us...was there...and being bereft of a tape measure,Arnold's estimate would fall within the parameters of 48 inches to a shorter distance from the ground. Arnold's observation may be simple a general "eyeballing" of the distance and not specific. In the past and occasionally since, I have personally taken the comment made by Supt.Arnold that SPE provided to be a generic one, where it merely meant a person would have come into contact with the message with any part of his or her side up to the shoulder and had experimented with writing at several heights from the ground at work.

When I responded to Ichabod Crane's comments and stated "crouched", that meant leaned slightly,not on haunches. I've tried to write in a multitude of positions and had no difficulty in producing a 14 word message (with the exception of the second word ) being instantly interpretable from all heights.

[The Good Michael]

Gareth,

When I am writing to an audience, I usually start a bit higher, but if I am jotting something on the board before class, it is always at chest level. Arm length may have something to do with it, though I haven't pursued that avenue. I think, and other teachers agree, that the most relaxed position (if there really can be one) is with a slight upward bend at the elbow, and a very slight upward bend of the wrist. This puts things at chest level. If I want to use big letters, I start at about eye level and dip to mid-chest. I haven't asked this of others though. I specifically spoke to my colleagues about writing on a brick wall in 1 inch or less letters.

Cheers,

Mike

[Sam Flynn]

Mike - wouldn't the sheer of expansiveness of a blackboard/whiteboard help with the "comfort factor"? If you had to write on something the width of a plank (or door-jamb), wouldn't it cramp your style a little?

Irrespective of that - would the "comfort zone" be different to a non-teacher anyway? I use a whiteboard quite often at work, although clearly not as often as a teacher, and my comfort zone is anywhere above chin-level; as soon as I dip below that, my writing and draughtsmanship deteriorate significantly.

The above are eminently testable, incidentally - if done with a big enough sample of random subjects and with proper experimental controls.

[The Good Michael]

To answer the question: I write on a chalkboard or a whiteboard every day. If I have a lot to write, I start at 6 inches above my height of 70 1/2 inches, or 76 1/2 inches. I write, without bending over, down to to 46 inches, or 26 1/2 inches below my height. My level for extreme comfort, or my chosen level, is the height of 51 1/2 inches. If I were 5'8", that would bring me right about to the comfort level of 50". No one writes at eye level as a first choice. Middle of the chest level is the most relaxed. A poll taken by asking 3 other teachers today shows that the writer wrote at chest level if writing under unhurried circumstances. The answer to the question is that this provides no real clue.

Mike

[Stewart P Evans]

Superintendent Thomas Arnold

I have said it before and I shall say it again, the chalked writing was at shoulder height. Superintendent Thomas Arnold was there, he decided the writing should be erased. He clearly stated -

"...the fact that it was in such a position that it would have been rubbed by the shoulders of persons passing in & out of the building" and here it is in his own fair hand -



HO 144/221/A49301C f 198.

The fact that he states that the writing was also in a position to be rubbed by the shoulders of persons passing through the entranceway also favours Warren's statement that it was on the 'jamb of the open archway or doorway' as if it had been on the inner wall there would be less, or no, likelihood of it being rubbed by shoulders.

[IchabodCrane]

From Halse's testimony at Eddowe's inquest:
Witness: [...] The writing was on the black bricks, which formed a kind of dado, the bricks above being white.

[IchabodCrane]

1) Assuming both Stride and Eddowes are Ripper victims, both murders occurred in the immediate vicinity of Jewish clubs, and in the case of Eddowes a Jewish landmark, the Great Synagogue. This indicates the ripper wanted to leave clues pointing to a Jewish identity of the murderer on this particular night.
2) It is unlikely that the Ripper, unlike the Police Officers on patrol, would have carried a lamp, so how would he have noticed the graffito in the dark if it was already there?
3) The murder occured at around 1:45, but the apron was not dropped until after 2:20. Since it does not take 35 minutes to walk from Mitre Square to Goulston street, this is an indication that the place for the dropping of the apron was chosen because the Ripper was familiar with the address and knew that Jews were living there.
4) The police believed it very likely that the Graffito was written by the Ripper (see Robert Anderson's comments about the lost proof years later).

[Wickerman]

As can be seen in this relatively modern pic of the GSG doorway, the building bricks were the standard red-brick type.
Throwing the cloth against the wall and scribbling at eye-level (white chalk on red-brick) smacks more of common sense than throwing it down where you then have to crouch to write anything that can be visible - thats just plain dumb!

[Howard Brown]

Thanks Ichabod. Thats exactly why he's got to crouch to write the G..

Back to Indian Harry:

Not only could he have found chalk ( spur of the moment idea), but he may have swiped some chalk from out of the 53 or so items found on Mrs. Eddowes...or had it beforehand.

[IchabodCrane]

Because the chalk was white as were the bricks above the black bricks so the writer, if he was not a child, had to bend, squat on his heels or kneel down to write on the black bricks.

[Howard Brown]

Dear Mr. I'm Back On Goulston Street at 2 A.M.:

How the heck do you know they were blowing whistles when the Ripper put the message on the wall? Lemme see your time machine !

[Howard Brown]

Dear Mike R.:

Thats a good scenario...about the kneeling to write just a few words or so. That is,unless the message was interrupted for some reason or the other..which of course,we'll never know one way or the other.

Dear Indian Harry:

No disrespect meant, but what sort of kid writes a message of such convolution and in reference to what? The psychology behind the message in no way, to me, indicates anything other than an adult. Thanks for your opinion,by the way.

My good friend and graffiti nemesis,Wick...the heathen:

"Then why not drop it beside a common red-brick wall (white chalk on red-brick) and he could write at his normal, comfortable height?"

Good question,J.S. Maybe the rain..maybe a feeling he has that he has to get closer to that location before he writes...maybe he sees someone en route,not necessarily that they saw him, but it prevents him from writing on another location...lots of variables,Wick.

Dear, dear Howie..
It is normal practice, when writing on a wall or blackboard, to write at eye level. Eye-level is typically 4-5 inches below your maximum height.

Dear,more dearest Wick:

Thats true daddio...but if the available writing space at the Wentworth is only 48 inches high to begin with, he's gotta crouch anyway..unless he was a very short individual.

Howie, you're resizing the evidence to fit the crime.
Just face it buddy, a 72 inch high person will comfortably write at 67-68 inch, eye-level.

See above, Man O' Straw...



The kid that wrote the GSG, Jack the Nipper, was barely 4 foot 3 inch tall.

See above once more, Hayman....no kid in the East End would have written something like that. In fact, I'll put Monty's and Sam Flynn's lives on the line under threat of guillotine and dare you and/or the Indian Harry gentleman to find one example anywhere in the history of this planet where a kid could,did,would,or has come up with something so "adult" in nature like the GSG.

I think you're struggling my friend. The thing that has me puzzled is why you need to interpret this in the way you do. Do you have a theory that depends on your argument?

No theory,no agenda,no platform...or even a suspect to sus,Wick.

[Wickerman]

Hello all,

Ive suggested quite frequently here that the height was in perfect relation to ones eye-line while kneeling, or while bent over. I think that might mean the apron section was "placed", and while on one knee or crouching, he jots 5 lines.....if both are from the killer from Mitre Square.

Best regards.

Perhaps you could demonstrate this, take a bloodstained wrag down the street and toss it at the foot of a wall, bearing in mind the police are blowing whistles looking for a culprit - please explain why you suddenly decide to kneel down!

[Indian Harry]

Street Vendor Chalk Board

Suggesting that the Goulston Street Graffito was done by a child does hold some weight. However, an adult accustomed to writing on a portable chalkboard (perhaps a street vendor of sorts) could also have been responsible.

Hello all,

Ive suggested quite frequently here that the height was in perfect relation to ones eye-line while kneeling, or while bent over. I think that might mean the apron section was "placed", and while on one knee or crouching, he jots 5 lines.....if both are from the killer from Mitre Square.

Best regards.