Height of GSG a Clue?

[Howard Brown]

Dear Wickerman:

Robert Clack had made those posts regarding the area,I believe. If he sees this,maybe he can chime in.

Sor...I didn't state that Long had his lamp on at all times. I made the observation that had there been no ambient light,which of course there was , then in a slightly sarcastic way I was suggesting that had there been no light at all he would have needed a lamp to guide his way...much like I am doing with you and your heathen, non-believer approach to the G.

Now let me ask you, thou of little faith, don't you believe that there was enough ambient light for someone to have stopped and written the message?

Back to you,Sir Straw.

[Wickerman]

...its this damned English I have trouble with

Apparently!



Lets just look at the Times of Oct. 12th.

The Coroner ask's PC Long how he spells Jews, Long responds "J-e-w-s", but then the Coroner ask's an odd question, "was it not J-u-w-e-s?".

My question is this, "where did the Coroner get this alternate spelling from?"

Long was the first witness as to the existence of the GSG, the testimony of Halse has not been given yet, so why is the Coroner questioning the spelling by offering an alternate?

Anyhow, PC Long has offered "J-e-w-s" from memory.

Then the notebook is brought in, Long reads his note but does not correct his version of the spelling, what PC Long says is that the inspector who was with him at the scene thought the spelling was "J-e-u-w-e-s", not that he wrote what the inspector said.

Long wrote "J-e-w-s", the inspector had thought it read "J-e-u-w-e-s", the Coroner suggested it might have been "J-u-w-e-s".

Thats the sequence as I see it from the Times, and I'm still wondering where the Coroner got his version from?
Did the Coroner have something in front of him that we don't know about?

Some may not remember but the plan of Mitre Sq drawn up by Foster, for the Coroner at the inquest, did have the GSG written by someone's hand in the top right corner, below the cardinal point reference. There's a block of writing giving the location of the apron, then the GSG is written in at the bottom.
I can't easily read how the word "Jews" is spelled.

Something to look into..

[Howard Brown]

Wick....

Long was uncertain and stood corrected on the second word. You're right...for once in this spirited badinage.

I question whether what Warren sent in is completely accurate,considering that Long was in error about the second word and yet Warren sent a communique to Matthews with the sentence structure of how Long interpreted it. What do you make of this ? Not that it changes the basic gist of the message of course, but with the use of double negatives,its easy to understand how Warren or even Halse ( to be honest) could have made a slight error. I doubt that Halse did,however,since he stayed with the message if you remember.

Back to you....

[Simon Wood]

Hi Wickerman,

PC Long [inquest]—J-E-W-S

Coroner—J-U-W-E-S

Unnamed Inspector [as reported by PC Long]—J-E-U-W-S

DC Halse—J-U-W-E-S

Superintendent Arnold [6th November report]—J-U-E-W-S

Swanson—J-U-W-E-S

Home Office Minute [unattributed] "J-E-W-E-S, not J-U-W-E-S"

Chief Rabbi's letter to Warren—J-U-E-W-E-S

Warren's transcription, sent to Home Office—J-U-W-E-S

And you think you're confused?

Regards,

Simon

[Rob Clack]

If I remember correctly this is where I placed the lamps in that part of Goulston Street.



There's a question mark on the bottom one by the Goulston Street Baths. It's possibly a wall lamp.

The blue circles by the way are hydrants.

Rob

[perrymason]

Isnt the fact that virtually all the gentile investigators cant keep the spelling straight somewhat telling about the message itself? Gentiles dont familiarize themselves with Judaism, or Hebrew, very well. They could easily mispell the word "Jews" in fact, as we see they cant even mirror a single mis-spelling of it uniformly.

If this was written by a Jew, you would more likely have seen "WE are not the men", or "The Jews are not the men".

Best regards all.

[Sam Flynn]

PC Long [inquest]—J-E-W-S
Coroner—J-U-W-E-S
Unnamed Inspector [as reported by PC Long]—J-E-U-W-S
DC Halse—J-U-W-E-S
Superintendent Arnold [6th November report]—J-U-E-W-S
Swanson—J-U-W-E-S
Home Office Minute [unattributed] "J-E-W-E-S, not J-U-W-E-S"
Chief Rabbi's letter to Warren—J-U-E-W-E-S
Warren's transcription, sent to Home Office—J-U-W-E-S
And you think you're confused?

...you missed one out, Simon!

George Crapp, semi-literate lavatory attendant: "S-U-W-E-J"

[Wickerman]

If I remember correctly this is where I placed the lamps in that part of Goulston Street.
There's a question mark on the bottom one by the Goulston Street Baths. It's possibly a wall lamp.
The blue circles by the way are hydrants.
Rob

Thankyou Rob.
By the way, do you have the date of the Goads Map you are using?, and also the lamps which are superimposed on the map, what date do they represent?

And yes, the Blue circles on your map are Hydrants. The Goad Map I previously posted was kindly sent to me by Jon Ogan several years ago, but I have no idea who typed 'Lampost' against the circles.
I can see how the mix-up could have happened. I have a Goad Map of Mitre Sq where the street lighting is for sure shown in blue circles - but I don't know what year the map represents.
The Ordinance Survey Map for 1873 shows Light Posts (L.P.) and Wall Lamps (L). I have circled the L.P. in red, the L in purple.

[Wickerman]

Then the Ordinance Survey Map for 1894 shows only Hydrants, no lighting.

[Rob Clack]

I placed the lamps from photos and postcards I have seen ranging from 1895 to about 1908. The Goads map is dated May 1890.
No Goads Map I have seen has Lamps marked on them and Blue circles have always represented Hydrants. There are three Mitre Square Goad maps I am familiar with. 1887, 1939 and 1957. The 1887 map has the hydrant on the corner with Mitre Street while the 1939 and 1957 has the hydrant moved to just left of center in the square itself.

Rob

[Wickerman]

Thankyou for all that Rob.

With respect to the GSG.
I wanted to bring up one of the two plans drawn by Foster to be used by the Coroner at the Inquest.
I am suspecting that the Coroners suggestion to PC Long (was it not Juwes?), came from something Coroner Langham had in front of him. This plan is the only source I can imagine which may have prompted Langham to ask such a question. I placed a loop around the area where the GSG has been written on the top right corner of the plan.
Unfortunately I am not able to define the spelling of the word Juwes/Jewes from the copy I have.
I find it interesting that the handwriting in the top corner does not seem to match that of either Foster or Langham. Yet, I would think that such notes were indeed placed on the plan by the Coroner, or by someone else at the Coroner's direction.
This was part of the purpose of the plan, for the Coroner to understand the scene and make his own notes.

[Wickerman]

Here is a close-up of the GSG section with what I believe is just readable printed below each word. The word Juwes/Jews is inside the loop and barely readable. Someone else may be able to improve on this.

[Wickerman]

Well I guess if I had just used Stewarts Letters from Hell, I'd have got there a bit sooner.
Yes now I can see "Juws" or "Juwes" in the loop.
"The Juws/Juwes are not the men To be blamed for nothing"

This then could well be the source of Langham's question to PC Long.
But who wrote it on the plan?

[The Good Michael]

This just in: The test results of the GSG simulation show all lab rats would begin their writing at chest level or higher. The experiment was done on a blackboard with chalk. The surface area began at as far above head level as I could reach, down to lower abdomen, beneath the naval. I created a pattern of rectangles that resembled brick work. The students were in line, in the hall and were told to write the words, "I am Michael, and I am crazy." The instructions were to come in and begin their writing, in neat letters that would fit on the bricks, and in their most natural position. The room was unlit and the window curtains were pulled together. The room wasn't dark, but it wasn't well lit either, and I imagine it had the quality of light at about dusk. I used white chalk.

The results:

High overhead beginning: 2

Forehead to top of head: 5

Nose to eye level: 6

Neck to chin: 2

Chest: 13

Nothing can really be gleaned from this except that JTR was not a child in all probability, unless he/she was reaching up a lot to write, or was standing on a crate.

Cheers,

Mike

[Canucco dei Mergi]

Apparently!



Lets just look at the Times of Oct. 12th.

The Coroner ask's PC Long how he spells Jews, Long responds "J-e-w-s", but then the Coroner ask's an odd question, "was it not J-u-w-e-s?".

My question is this, "where did the Coroner get this alternate spelling from?"

Long was the first witness as to the existence of the GSG, the testimony of Halse has not been given yet, so why is the Coroner questioning the spelling by offering an alternate?

Because the Coroner had been furnished before the Inquest opened with the police depositions of all the witnesses that the City police would think to send before him.

In our case Coroner Langham with all likelyhood had thus already come to the knowledge of the two different versions of the word "Jews/Juwes" given respectively by Long and Halse.

Letting a Corner reading the different witnesses deposition before the opening of the inquest is standard practice to let him know which witness will say what and to interrogate them for the best purpose/speed of such an insitution.

It doesn't matter if Halse had yet to speak at the inquest.
Langham knew already that Long's version of the word was not the same as Halse's one.
Since they were the only two witnesses brought before him that saw the graffito, this was certainly a discrepance that had to be solved.
Contrary to the place of the word 'not', it was solved, Long admitting his mistake.

The word was thus 'Juwes'.
Charles Warren (who also saw the graffito and transcribed it by his own hand)backed that version up.
All other versions given by police officials or the press are irrelevant except for classical 'Ripperologues' who use them to purposedly confuse people mind and keeping doubts and ignorance around.
Concepts on which they have based the ludicrous serial killer conception of the case.

Canucco dei Mergi.