Height of GSG a Clue?

[The Good Michael]

All other versions given by police officials or the press are irrelevant except for classical 'Ripperologues' who use them to purposedly confuse people mind and keeping doubts and ignorance around.

The spelling doesn't matter, anyway. It might matter that it was misspelled, but not how it was misspelled. Juives, Juwes, Jewes, or Juews, seems unimportant.

Cheers,

Mike

[Simon Wood]

Hi Canucco dei Mergi,

As a matter of interest, what exactly is your interpretation of the Ripper phenomenon?

Regards,

Simon

[Canucco dei Mergi]

The spelling doesn't matter, anyway. It might matter that it was misspelled, but not how it was misspelled.

I do not want to be rude here but this is one of the greatest nonsense ever expressed about the graffito.

If it might matter that it was mispelled, if it was mispelled, the spelling must matter if nothing else because the question to be answered would be: why it was mispelled in such a way.

There is no reason of course to even think it was mispelled because we have not the least clue that it could have been.
Indeed everything points to the opposite feeling.

The author wrote well, it is to say in a well educated handwriting (what we are told by people who saw the graffito) and didn't commit any other mistake in any of the other words.
For the ones who think that he mispelled the word "Jews" suffice to say that this same word was used at the time at least tens of times in the local newspapers daily.

The thinking of the mispelling came out at the time as a bold hypothesis because (at the time) there was no generally known significance of such a word (for the common people at least).

Thanks to two authors who wrote about it in a totally independent way some years ago (in a book not even by far related to the JtR saga) we know that the information given on that point by Stephen Knight in his often criticized (many times rightly so) book on the subject was right.

'Ripperologues' know it and try to avoid discussing the point.

That such a tiny winny little detail put in danger their theories of 'Jack the serial' says a lot.
But it says also a lot about their moral integrity.

Canucco dei Mergi.

[The Good Michael]

I do not want to be rude here but this is one of the greatest nonsense ever expressed about the graffito.

You believe Knight then? Who is spouting nonsense? Not I.

Mike

[Chris]

Thanks to two authors who wrote about it in a totally independent way some years ago (in a book not even by far related to the JtR saga) we know that the information given on that point by Stephen Knight in his often criticized (many times rightly so) book on the subject was right.

If you could provide some evidence (from 1888 or before, of course), that "Juwes" meant what Knight claimed it did, that would be interesting. But of course this question has been discussed many times here and - while a number of people have repeated Knight's claim - no evidence in support of it has been forthcoming.

[Sam Flynn]

if nothing else because the question to be answered would be: why it was mispelled in such a way.

It could simply have come about due to the chalk being thrown off course when it passed over a gap, indentation or bump in the brickwork. It may simply have been a curlicue (or "squiggle") on one or other of the letters that introduced what looked like a spurious "u" or "e". It's perhaps significant in this context to consider that the witnesses interpreted the writing differently: one man's "Jewes" was another man's "Juwes" or even "Jews". If the stimulus was ambiguous, it might explain why some seem to have perceived it differently than others.

[The Good Michael]

Gareth,

But to get back on track to the thread, I posted the results of my test. They were somewhat inconclusive.

Mike

[diana]

This just in: The test results of the GSG simulation show all lab rats would begin their writing at chest level or higher. The experiment was done on a blackboard with chalk. The surface area began at as far above head level as I could reach, down to lower abdomen, beneath the naval. I created a pattern of rectangles that resembled brick work. The students were in line, in the hall and were told to write the words, "I am Michael, and I am crazy." The instructions were to come in and begin their writing, in neat letters that would fit on the bricks, and in their most natural position. The room was unlit and the window curtains were pulled together. The room wasn't dark, but it wasn't well lit either, and I imagine it had the quality of light at about dusk. I used white chalk.

The results:

High overhead beginning: 2

Forehead to top of head: 5

Nose to eye level: 6

Neck to chin: 2

Chest: 13

Nothing can really be gleaned from this except that JTR was not a child in all probability, unless he/she was reaching up a lot to write, or was standing on a crate.

Cheers,

Mike

I think you can get some very good points from this experiment. The regions must be equally divided however.

I grouped the results into three areas, two of which are equal in size and I adjusted statistically for the third region which was larger. I made some assumptions which I'm sure are in some instances incorrect, and if Mike can correct them my conclusions can be tweaked (or tossed out as the case may be).

Assumption 1) The area above the subject's heads was on average 10 inches. In this area two people wrote.

Assumption 2) The distance from the base of the neck to the top of the head is about 10 inches (I measured me at 9 but I am female.) 13 people wrote in this area.

Assumption 3) From the base of the neck to the navel is about 15 inches. To compare the score in a statistically correct manner with the other two areas which are 10 inches the score of 7 writers must be diminished by 1/3 since the chest area is larger giving 4.62 writers.

These numbers add up to 19.62 writers (adjusted). 13 of them wrote in the region of the head. That's 66.2589% or roughly 2/3. I'm willing to bet that most of the chest people were in the upper chest area.

[Sam Flynn]

Gareth,

But to get back on track to the thread, I posted the results of my test. They were somewhat inconclusive.

Blimey - that was fast! Well done, Mike, and thanks. As to whatever conclusion may be drawn (or scribbled, LOL!), note that more subjects - 15 as opposed to 13 - aimed for neck height or above, against those who wrote at chest level. However, a simple Binomial Test (based on the hypothesis that there'd be a 50:50 split between "High-Jacks" and "Low-Jacks") shows that, for this experiment at least, the difference between the two populations ("High/Low") wasn't statistically significant. In other words, the 15:13 ratio falls within the bounds of chance.

Out of interest, Mike - did you keep separate data for either sex?

[Barnaby]

Interesting thread. My two cents:

There is a debate about whether the message was significantly below shoulder level as to impair legibility. Even if it was, if Jack was kneeling down with the purpose of writing the message as close to the cloth as possible, this is no longer an issue. Kinda funny: By explicitly trying to connect message and bloody cloth via proximity, he has convinced those on his trail 120 years later that a boy most have written the message.

Why not write the message on the red brick? Well perhaps he wanted to be out of the street (not as visible) when he wrote it.

I find it too much of a coincidence that (a) Stride was killed outside a Jewish club and (b) on the same night a bloody cloth from Eddowes was found directly under a message that references "Juwes" to simply conclude that it was just graffiti from a schoolboy. That's not to say that Stride was necessarily a Ripper victim. Perhaps Jack was ticked off that the buzz on the streets was that another Ripper victim had been found on Berner Street. An antisemitic Jack might have been complaining that they never will blame the Jews for anything.

[The Good Michael]

Gareth,

My general observations were that females were more likely, in my test group, to write at chin level or above. In fact, all of the vict...er subjects who wrote at forehead and above were women.

As for chest level, it was fairly random between lower, upper, and center of chest which is what I would have expected given different arm lengths.

Cheers,

Mike

[The Good Michael]

Diana,

I think it could have been easier to divide this into two groups, one beginning at the bottom of the chest and ending at the chin, and the other beginning from above the chin and going to the maximum reach. I guess what I mean by this is that however it is divided can create the results someone is looking for. I think it's best to just say that no one in this group felt comfortable at less than chest level.

Cheers,

Mike

[IchabodCrane]

Too many coincidences

I find it too much of a coincidence that (a) Stride was killed outside a Jewish club and (b) on the same night a bloody cloth from Eddowes was found directly under a message that references "Juwes" to simply conclude that it was just graffiti from a schoolboy. That's not to say that Stride was necessarily a Ripper victim. Perhaps Jack was ticked off that the buzz on the streets was that another Ripper victim had been found on Berner Street. An antisemitic Jack might have been complaining that they never will blame the Jews for anything.

Not only that but (c) the victim Eddowes was also accosted in the immediate vicinity of a Jewish Club and a Jewish Synagogue. That is why the outrage was so great when the graffito, the first tangible lead in the case, was erased.

[Johnr]

Off With His Head!

Evening all,
Does anyone else see the Dodgesonian logic in the testimony made by police regarding the Goulston Street chalk message?
The police felt it important to erase the graffiti immediately so as not to stir up further sectarian strife and perhaps prompt a riot.
Yet Superintendent Arnold clearly stated the writing might be erased by people rubbing it with their shoulder as they passed through the vestibule!
So, presumeably, if its lifespan was so precarious why worry?
And why might it not have been neatly written by a midget?
Some time back, I tried to get some knowledgeable person to tell me the dimensions of the foyer/vestibule at the Wentworth Buildings, to find out if the apron was just below the graffiti or further inside, at the foot of the stairs.I still don't know.
And, did you know that the dado arrangement at the Wentworth Buildings is still visible?
Around the corner from Goulston Street in Wenworth Street, there is a sort of covered lane or passageway.At its entrance one can still see the dark green painted wall, with the black dado above. JOHN RUFFELS.

[Robert]

While we're on this subject, John, there's also the progression of the murders :

Furiouser and furiouser.