Height of GSG a Clue?

[The Good Michael]

It is an interesting shot. Thanks Wickerman! The part of the shoulder that might rub chalk is the same level as the chest. That kind of proves my point, but I will do my experiment to see what I can glean from that.

Cheers,

Mike

[Sam Flynn]

On Monday, I will try an experiment with a college class. I don't know if it matters that they are Korean.

It might not matter much at all, Mike - at least it will give us some idea. The best of British with the experiment, and mucho thanks for offering to have a go.

A couple of hints, with apologies if they sound patronising:

1. The paper should be placed so as to avoid artificially constraining the subjects to a given "zone". In order to provide a reasonable range, I'd suggest that the top of the paper should be higher than the reach of an upwardly-extended hand, and the bottom edge about waist height.

2. Don't let the others watch - the exercise has to be as individual and spontaneous as possible.

After one writes, I will measure from the top of his/her head to the tip of the chalk.

3. Ask them to remove any hats!

[Wickerman]

It might not matter much at all, Mike - at least it will give us some idea. The best of British with the experiment, and mucho thanks for offering to have a go.

A couple of hints, with apologies if they sound patronising:

1. The paper should be placed so as to avoid artificially constraining the subjects to a given "zone". In order to provide a reasonable range, I'd suggest that the top of the paper should be higher than the reach of an upwardly-extended hand, and the bottom edge about waist height.

2. Don't let the others watch - the exercise has to be as individual and spontaneous as possible.3. Ask them to remove any hats!

You might also want to conduct this test in the dark..

[Sam Flynn]

You might also want to conduct this test in the dark..

Not in the first instance, perhaps, Jon (and Mike). The specific object of this particular exercise would be to see where, on average, people spontaneously choose to write on a vertical surface - whether at shoulder-height, eye-height, head-height (or above), etc - under normal conditions.

I agree with you, Jon, that a follow-up would be useful, in that it would be interesting to know whether (for example) dark conditions forced the average "writing-height" up or down. This would be a useful test of whether darkness compels the writer to bring the working surface closer to eye-level for reasons of visibility. However, one needs to establish the norm first.

[Howard Brown]

You might also want to conduct this test in the dark..-Wickerman

Dear Wick:

First,you stated that the Ripper/some other person.....who wrote the graffiti wrote it while the po-leeces were blowing whistles...and now you suggest the graffiti was written in the dark....as in total darkness,old bean ? Please 'splain yourself...thank you.

[The Good Michael]

Actually, I was planning on taping 3 or 4 pieces of paper staggered like bricks, but vertically, giving a range of 22-30 inches depending on the column that's chosen.

Cheers,

Mike

[Wickerman]

You might also want to conduct this test in the dark..-Wickerman

Dear Wick:
First,you stated that the Ripper/some other person.....who wrote the graffiti wrote it while the po-leeces were blowing whistles...and now you suggest the graffiti was written in the dark....as in total darkness,old bean ? Please 'splain yourself...thank you.

The graffiti had to be written in the dark if it was written by the killer, strange that according to PC Long's testimony, it seems he only saw the graffiti after he used his lamp to look for blood spots.
In the Times, Oct. 12th he testifies that he noticed the piece of apron first, then saw the words on the wall while he was searching. His light was on at the time.
In the Daily Telegraph, Oct. 11th, it is reported that he only saw the writing while he was trying to discover any marks of blood (presumably on the wall).

So, if the PC needed a lamp to see it, to read it, how did it get rit ? [sic]

Besides, the only reason given for it being described as 'fresh' is that Halse 'thought' it might have been worn off if it had been there some time.
Long said there was no indication of it being written recently, like chalk dust, etc.

Forget the whistles, City PC's did not carry whistles.

Regards, Jon.S.

[Stewart P Evans]

Whistle

The graffiti had to be written in the dark if it was written by the killer, strange that according to PC Long's testimony, it seems he only saw the graffiti after he used his lamp to look for blood spots.
In the Times, Oct. 12th he testifies that he noticed the piece of apron first, then saw the words on the wall while he was searching. His light was on at the time.
In the Daily Telegraph, Oct. 11th, it is reported that he only saw the writing while he was trying to discover any marks of blood (presumably on the wall).
So, if the PC needed a lamp to see it, to read it, how did it get rit ? [sic]
Besides, the only reason given for it being described as 'fresh' is that Halse 'thought' it might have been worn off if it had been there some time.
Long said there was no indication of it being written recently, like chalk dust, etc.
Forget the whistles, City PC's did not carry whistles.
Regards, Jon.S.

Good points Jon, except for the whistles. For on being shown the body by PC Watkins, in Mitre Square, ex-policeman George James Morris, the watchman from the warehouse, 'immediately blew his whistle' and ran up Mitre Street into Aldgate. He attracted the attention of two constables who approached him and asked what was the matter. At that time of night the shrill sound of a police whistle would carry some distance and may well have been heard by the fleeing killer. From Morris's written inquest statement -

[Howard Brown]

By the light of the Ambient Moon

Dear Wickerman:

Thanks, old friend for replying.

That ambient light was available would facilitate the writing at the time of the depositing of the apron piece. If it was as dark as its being suggested here, Long, who flopped a bit at the Inquest, would have had to use his bullseye to see where he was walking.

[Wickerman]

Good points Jon, except for the whistles. For on being shown the body by PC Watkins, in Mitre Square, ex-policeman George James Morris, the watchman from the warehouse, 'immediately blew his whistle' and ran up Mitre Street into Aldgate...

Hello Stewart, and thankyou for the text.
Yes, I saw that, but I just assumed being that he was an ex-PC the whistle might have been his own personal item.
You see, I had this direct response by PC Watkins to a question by the Coroner:

By the Coroner.-"I did not sound an alarm. We (the City police) do not carry whistles, sir."
Morning Advertiser, Oct. 5th, 1888.

So I rolled the dice, we might say, I opted for Watkins statement rather than that of the ex-PC (retired?) nightwatchman.

What do you think?, Perhaps Don Rumbelow might know?

All the best, Jon.S.

Edit:
Arghh!, Morris was an ex-Met policeman, thats why he had a whistle...silly me!

[Canucco dei Mergi]

Long, who flopped a bit at the Inquest.

The statement here above has no foundations. Indeed it is simply false.

PC Alfred Long won by long and large the confrontation with the City police solicitor.
At the end the solicitor throw the towel and leave the ring, beaton by technical KO.
Being a simple Pc facing a City detective and a solicitor he has (first by the author Martin Fido) been put by this simple fact into bad light.

His testimony is evidence of a young man extremely mature, plenty of (apparently) justified selfconfidence.
He never flops.
When he makes a mistake he propmtly aknowledge it.

'Ripperologues' often should take example from his modesty and honesty.

One (probably the best with Mrs Maxwell) of the most trustful witness of the case.

'Ripperologues' prefer nevertheless the faked testimony (we have evidence of the faked nature of it) given as a blessing by Elizabeth Long.
Guess why ?

[Howard Brown]

Arrevederci,Signore Mergi...

"The statement here above has no foundations. Indeed it is simply false."

Au contraire,mon frer. When asked if he was possibly mistaken as to the spelling of the word "Juwes" ( Long had it down as Juews) Long responded : " it may be as to the spelling" which can be found on page 260 of the Ultimate Sourcebook. Thats a bit of flopping,signore...

Ciao,Signore Mergi

[Canucco dei Mergi]

Arrevederci,Signore Mergi...

"The statement here above has no foundations. Indeed it is simply false."

Au contraire,mon frer. When asked if he was possibly mistaken as to the spelling of the word "Juwes" ( Long had it down as Juews) Long responded : " it may be as to the spelling" which can be found on page 260 of the Ultimate Sourcebook. Thats a bit of flopping,signore...

Ciao,Signore Mergi

Non proprio caro Signor Brown, l'errore l'ha certo fatto ma prima dell'inchiesta, quando ha riportato erroneamente nel suo quadernetto di servizio l'ortografia della parola "Juwes".
All'inchiesta, in maniera molto onesta e repentina, riconosce lo sbaglio.
Nessun flip-flop.

Le traduco in caso il suo italiano si limitasse alle cinque o sei parole sopramenzionate.

Translation:

"Not really my dear Mr Brown, he certainly made a mistake but this was done before the inquest, at the moment he transcribed the word "Juwes" on his notebook in mispelling it.
At the inquest, in a straight and honest way, he doesn't flip-flop about it: he promptly aknowledges his mistake."

In doing this he shows to be extremely trustful: you can count on him to the point of aknowledging his past mistakes.
Don't you agree this modesty would profit to many authors on the case ?

I congratulate with you, mon frère toi aussi, contrary to Long, you didn't mispel any of the italian words you used (pay nevertheless attention to the french ones).

[Wickerman]

Dear Wickerman:
That ambient light was available would facilitate the writing at the time of the depositing of the apron piece. If it was as dark as its being suggested here, Long, who flopped a bit at the Inquest, would have had to use his bullseye to see where he was walking.

Howie.
The lamps they carried went out if they ran or moved quickly. The lamps did not carry enough oil to last a full shift, so no, we cannot argue he had his lamp on all the time, and why would he?
If and when he needed light for close inspections of dark corners he would light it as and when required. Stewart might correct me if I'm wrong but I think the beat PC's had to buy their own oil for their lamps?

It's a shame we seem to have lost that thread from 2006 where we exchanged views on Foster's drawings. He placed a lamp in Goulston St, the position of which conflicted with Survey maps of the period. Foster roughly scribbled in a marker for the apron a little south of a street lamp, when in fact the survey map shows that the doorway to 108-119 was actually north of the lamp.
If the GSG was on the right side of the doorway (still can't find a reference for this), as suggested by Sugden then the author of the GSG would have been writing in the shadow with light, however meagre, in his eyes.
The GSG was more likely written in daylight, buddy!

[Howard Brown]

Signore Mergi:

Il miei caro amico:

I suppose Long can be credited for correcting his error,if we look at it that way. Its good that someone pressed him on the exact spelling. Its also worth keeping in mind that the GSG is sort of a "hybrid" message. The sentence structure comes from Long's interpretation, except for the second word,which comes from Halse.

Thanks for the kind words on my Italian,signore...its this damned English I have trouble with

Ciao
How