Height of GSG a Clue?

[Howard Brown]

Dear Mr. I'm Back On Goulston Street at 2 A.M.:

How the heck do you know they were blowing whistles when the Ripper put the message on the wall? Lemme see your time machine !

[IchabodCrane]

Because the chalk was white as were the bricks above the black bricks so the writer, if he was not a child, had to bend, squat on his heels or kneel down to write on the black bricks.

[Howard Brown]

Thanks Ichabod. Thats exactly why he's got to crouch to write the G..

Back to Indian Harry:

Not only could he have found chalk ( spur of the moment idea), but he may have swiped some chalk from out of the 53 or so items found on Mrs. Eddowes...or had it beforehand.

[Wickerman]

As can be seen in this relatively modern pic of the GSG doorway, the building bricks were the standard red-brick type.
Throwing the cloth against the wall and scribbling at eye-level (white chalk on red-brick) smacks more of common sense than throwing it down where you then have to crouch to write anything that can be visible - thats just plain dumb!

[IchabodCrane]

1) Assuming both Stride and Eddowes are Ripper victims, both murders occurred in the immediate vicinity of Jewish clubs, and in the case of Eddowes a Jewish landmark, the Great Synagogue. This indicates the ripper wanted to leave clues pointing to a Jewish identity of the murderer on this particular night.
2) It is unlikely that the Ripper, unlike the Police Officers on patrol, would have carried a lamp, so how would he have noticed the graffito in the dark if it was already there?
3) The murder occured at around 1:45, but the apron was not dropped until after 2:20. Since it does not take 35 minutes to walk from Mitre Square to Goulston street, this is an indication that the place for the dropping of the apron was chosen because the Ripper was familiar with the address and knew that Jews were living there.
4) The police believed it very likely that the Graffito was written by the Ripper (see Robert Anderson's comments about the lost proof years later).

[IchabodCrane]

From Halse's testimony at Eddowe's inquest:
Witness: [...] The writing was on the black bricks, which formed a kind of dado, the bricks above being white.

[Stewart P Evans]

Superintendent Thomas Arnold

I have said it before and I shall say it again, the chalked writing was at shoulder height. Superintendent Thomas Arnold was there, he decided the writing should be erased. He clearly stated -

"...the fact that it was in such a position that it would have been rubbed by the shoulders of persons passing in & out of the building" and here it is in his own fair hand -



HO 144/221/A49301C f 198.

The fact that he states that the writing was also in a position to be rubbed by the shoulders of persons passing through the entranceway also favours Warren's statement that it was on the 'jamb of the open archway or doorway' as if it had been on the inner wall there would be less, or no, likelihood of it being rubbed by shoulders.

[The Good Michael]

To answer the question: I write on a chalkboard or a whiteboard every day. If I have a lot to write, I start at 6 inches above my height of 70 1/2 inches, or 76 1/2 inches. I write, without bending over, down to to 46 inches, or 26 1/2 inches below my height. My level for extreme comfort, or my chosen level, is the height of 51 1/2 inches. If I were 5'8", that would bring me right about to the comfort level of 50". No one writes at eye level as a first choice. Middle of the chest level is the most relaxed. A poll taken by asking 3 other teachers today shows that the writer wrote at chest level if writing under unhurried circumstances. The answer to the question is that this provides no real clue.

Mike

[Sam Flynn]

Mike - wouldn't the sheer of expansiveness of a blackboard/whiteboard help with the "comfort factor"? If you had to write on something the width of a plank (or door-jamb), wouldn't it cramp your style a little?

Irrespective of that - would the "comfort zone" be different to a non-teacher anyway? I use a whiteboard quite often at work, although clearly not as often as a teacher, and my comfort zone is anywhere above chin-level; as soon as I dip below that, my writing and draughtsmanship deteriorate significantly.

The above are eminently testable, incidentally - if done with a big enough sample of random subjects and with proper experimental controls.

[The Good Michael]

Gareth,

When I am writing to an audience, I usually start a bit higher, but if I am jotting something on the board before class, it is always at chest level. Arm length may have something to do with it, though I haven't pursued that avenue. I think, and other teachers agree, that the most relaxed position (if there really can be one) is with a slight upward bend at the elbow, and a very slight upward bend of the wrist. This puts things at chest level. If I want to use big letters, I start at about eye level and dip to mid-chest. I haven't asked this of others though. I specifically spoke to my colleagues about writing on a brick wall in 1 inch or less letters.

Cheers,

Mike

[Howard Brown]

Unless I'm built funny, my general shoulder height is around 54 inches...top o' the shoulder to middle of upperarm.

The shoulder height of a person in the 5 ft. 6 to 5' 0" tall range would be roughly 48 inches high or so to 42 inches. Arnold,of course,as SPE kindly reminded us...was there...and being bereft of a tape measure,Arnold's estimate would fall within the parameters of 48 inches to a shorter distance from the ground. Arnold's observation may be simple a general "eyeballing" of the distance and not specific. In the past and occasionally since, I have personally taken the comment made by Supt.Arnold that SPE provided to be a generic one, where it merely meant a person would have come into contact with the message with any part of his or her side up to the shoulder and had experimented with writing at several heights from the ground at work.

When I responded to Ichabod Crane's comments and stated "crouched", that meant leaned slightly,not on haunches. I've tried to write in a multitude of positions and had no difficulty in producing a 14 word message (with the exception of the second word ) being instantly interpretable from all heights.

[Sam Flynn]

I think, and other teachers agree, that the most relaxed position (if there really can be one) is with a slight upward bend at the elbow, and a very slight upward bend of the wrist. This puts things at chest level.

Speaking as a non-teacher, Mike, I find that position rather unnatural and awkward - I tend to feel most comfortable with my writing hand at neck-level or above. Things get decidedly cramped, and the writing increasingly untidy and "slanty", the moment my marker-pen dips to shoulder-height or below.

As I say, all the parameters (including experience, height, arm length and age) could be easily tested, provided one had a large enough sample of randomly-chosen subjects.

[The Good Michael]

Gareth,

On Monday, I will try an experiment with a college class. I don't know if it matters that they are Korean. I won't tell them anything, but I will put some paper on the wall and ask them to write in about 1 1/2 cm letters a sentence. in English saying, "I am________, and I am from South Korea." After one writes, I will measure from the top of his/her head to the tip of the chalk. I have 30 kids in that class. It may give me some decent results.

Mike

[Howard Brown]

Mike:

Check this out. Its from late 2004. It may help. I am pretty sure I began the message at around 48 inches ( because I forget if I mentioned where I started it..)


www.casebook.org/dissertations/rip-offthewall.html

[Wickerman]

Well I'm quite relieved that Stewart stepped in with the "shoulder height" reference, I had been searching all last night for that.
Couldn't remember to whom it was attributed. (Thankyou Stewart).

This observation by Arnold might be said to conflict with Halse's, but to be honest, a person's arm from the elbow to the shoulder might brush the wall. This is all Arnold may have been concerned about, anywhere between the elbow to the shoulder could be included as "shoulder height".

We do have a demonstration of scale concerning what "shoulder height" might represent. Perhaps some have forgotten but there does exist a photograph of a policeman standing at that very doorway,...