A question . . . I can't wrap my head around.

[Wickerman]

I'd be surprised if the likes of Zodiac, Rader, Son of Sam, Green River, etc., knew anything about Jack the Ripper, outside of a passing comment.
Though I do think the urge to taunt the authorities like Zodiac stems from a different motive than our Ripper seems to have had.

[APerno]

hi AP
no big wup. either way he got a huge kick out writing letters, obviously, because he apparently continued to write them long after he stopped killing. it was a huge part of his motivation I agree.

however graysmith believed that he did go on killing and tries to attribute many deaths to him-something I doubt. mainly because if he did go on killing he would be taking credit for it in his letters.

also-just to point out that the Zodiac did use a knife in his killing-the couple at lake Berryessa he tied up and stabbed-very personal.

Ah did not remember that he used a knife (it has been a while), I thought all the kills were by gun.

[Abby Normal]

I am not sure where we are disagreeing? -- Of course he was a serial killer, the issue I was replying to was the suggestion that he got a bigger kick out of taunting the cops then killing, which I agree and I believe Smith recognized.

When they got close he had no difficultly shutting down operations and never killed again.That is something few can do.

I agree he seems to hold a strong jealousy of couples but his style of murder, with a gun has less a psychopathic tint to it than most serial killers who use knifes or garrote, and who like to dominate/humiliate their victims. There seems to be less of that in Zodiac; his killing seemed less personal, more of a swing at the world at large, thus more joy from taunting.

Guess we took away different opinions from the read.

hi AP
no big wup. either way he got a huge kick out writing letters, obviously, because he apparently continued to write them long after he stopped killing. it was a huge part of his motivation I agree.

however graysmith believed that he did go on killing and tries to attribute many deaths to him-something I doubt. mainly because if he did go on killing he would be taking credit for it in his letters.

also-just to point out that the Zodiac did use a knife in his killing-the couple at lake Berryessa he tied up and stabbed-very personal.

[APerno]

I am not sure where we are disagreeing? -- Of course he was a serial killer, the issue I was replying to was the suggestion that he got a bigger kick out of taunting the cops then killing, which I agree and I believe Smith recognized.

When they got close he had no difficultly shutting down operations and never killed again.That is something few can do.

I agree he seems to hold a strong jealousy of couples but his style of murder, with a gun has less a psychopathic tint to it than most serial killers who use knifes or garrote, and who like to dominate/humiliate their victims. There seems to be less of that in Zodiac; his killing seemed less personal, more of a swing at the world at large, thus more joy from taunting.

Guess we took away different opinions from the read.

[Abby Normal]

Interesting. No, I wasn't aware of that. Never read any books on the Zodiac. It's just my interpretation based on the communications and case evidence.

ive read smith and not sure if that's his assessment-Im pretty sure his take (well its mine anyway) is that the zodiac was a serial killer first and foremost(enjoyed the thrill of killing) and the "terrorist" part was secondary (taunting police/public).

I would term the Zodiac as a Thrill killer type serial killer, like son of sam, maybe monster of Florence. mainly-that they enjoy killing for the thrill of it-and that since these three mainly targeted couples/lovers lane-that a deep seated hatred and anger/jealosy of women and couples lie at the heart of it since they were losers that had issues with any kind of relationship. my view anyway

[Harry D]

If you are familiar with Robert Smith's work Zodiac, that's pretty much his assessment.

Interesting. No, I wasn't aware of that. Never read any books on the Zodiac. It's just my interpretation based on the communications and case evidence.

[APerno]

I think the Zodiac was a serial killer LARPING as a terrorist. He made threats about planting bombs & sniping schoolchildren but it was all hot air. He derived more satisfaction from taunting the police & press than he did from killing. At one point he said he was going to conceal his MO so the police wouldn't know which murders were his and which weren't. I think he lost the thrill in killing or got spooked and hoped the authorities would attribute murders to him without having to dirty his own hands.

If you are familiar with Robert Smith's work Zodiac, that's pretty much his assessment.

[JeffHamm]

I think the Zodiac was a serial killer LARPING as a terrorist. He made threats about planting bombs & sniping schoolchildren but it was all hot air. He derived more satisfaction from taunting the police & press than he did from killing. At one point he said he was going to conceal his MO so the police wouldn't know which murders were his and which weren't. I think he lost the thrill in killing or got spooked and hoped the authorities would attribute murders to him without having to dirty his own hands.

Hi Harry D,

Possibily. I think one could build that argument, that the thrill he got from killing, giving him power and control over a couple, paled in comparison to the thrill he got from having control and power over the entire region. And, as you say, less risky. But it's hard to say, the motives are often bizarre in their specifics, though often boil down to gaining a sense of power and control that they lack in other parts of the lives, or venting anger and rage over some injustice (real or imagined), or some link between sexual fantasies and violence, domination, and such. Of course, it's often hard to know the workings of how they think because, well, they aren't known to be an exactly truthful bunch.

- Jeff

[Harry D]

It's very rare, but highly publicized so seems more frequent, for serial killers to write letters and communicate. I'll leave out terrorist related types, like the Unabomber, as that's a different situation. Three that I can think of, though, would be Zodiac (unsolved), Son of Sam (Berkowitz), and BTK (Rader). Zodiac, being unsolved we'll have to leave aside as we can only speculate on his motives.

I think the Zodiac was a serial killer LARPING as a terrorist. He made threats about planting bombs & sniping schoolchildren but it was all hot air. He derived more satisfaction from taunting the police & press than he did from killing. At one point he said he was going to conceal his MO so the police wouldn't know which murders were his and which weren't. I think he lost the thrill in killing or got spooked and hoped the authorities would attribute murders to him without having to dirty his own hands.

[JeffHamm]

There was a killer - I cannot remember his name - who killed two people and then a third because - according to his claim - he wouldn't go down as a SK unless he killed a minimum of three.

Yes, that sounds familiar, but I can't recall who it was either. I have a vague, possibly incorrect, feeling there's more than one who have done that.

- Jeff

[Robert]

There was a killer - I cannot remember his name - who killed two people and then a third because - according to his claim - he wouldn't go down as a SK unless he killed a minimum of three.

[JeffHamm]

Serial killers do not have innate traits, they’re human beings shaped and influenced by the society they live in.
As Jeffhamm has mentioned, some try to live up to a serial killer “persona”, by for instance sending letters.

the industry surrounding serial killers is influential enough that cultural stereotypes have emerged that shape how serial killers are supposed to behave. E.g. behaving differently when interviewed, or pretending to read lots of books to appear more Hannibal Lecterish.

One of those influential cultural stereotypes is sending letters, a custom which was first elevated to global prominence during the ripper murders.

Yes, exactly. I think Rader's image of a "proper SK" is, in many ways, shaped by a false stereotype that has arise form a few highly publicized cases, and fictional presentations. He was trying to be the epitome of something that is actually a poor representation of the real thing. Like people, SK are very individualistic, and have their own individual and private motivations and drives. There are generalizations that can be made, but they do not apply universally, and the variation is wide so a general "average" is not hugely informative.

- Jeff

[Kattrup]

Do serial killers send taunting messages to the police and society because it is an innate trait common to serial killers, or are serial killers mimicking the (supposed) Ripper behavior because he is some kind of unwitting mentor they believe they must emulate?

If it is the former then I guess we have to take the Ripper missives more seriously, while if the latter, then we need be amazed at the power of the Ripper mystique.

Serial killers do not have innate traits, they’re human beings shaped and influenced by the society they live in.
As Jeffhamm has mentioned, some try to live up to a serial killer “persona”, by for instance sending letters.

the industry surrounding serial killers is influential enough that cultural stereotypes have emerged that shape how serial killers are supposed to behave. E.g. behaving differently when interviewed, or pretending to read lots of books to appear more Hannibal Lecterish.

One of those influential cultural stereotypes is sending letters, a custom which was first elevated to global prominence during the ripper murders.

[JeffHamm]

That's a rather... remarkable... ambition.

Rader, really is one of the "not like the others" set.

- Jeff

[Ginger]

Rader is probably the best example of "doing it because others did", but even then, that seems to be in part because Rader did what he thought a "proper SK" would do, and he was desperate to be known as a proper "SK'.

That's a rather... remarkable... ambition.