Dear Boss

[Abby Normal]

...And just when I thought we were getting on so well, Caz.

Just so as to avoid confusion, everyone, I'm not writing a book, the Hutchinson theory did not originate with me, and anyone is welcome to have trouble with it, providing they outline that trouble on the appropriate thread.

...Which isn't this one.

So Dear Boss it is.

Unless...!

maybe this one will get us back on track.
The question has always been on my mind as to why, if the letter was written by the killer, why did he ask for them to hold it back till he got to work again?

Pretend you're the killer. You have finally commited a murder to your satisfaction with Chapman. No real witness, you got the trophy, you got away clean (perhaps even in broad daylight). Its been awhile and you've heard about Leather Apron-the first real well known suspect, stealing your glory. you are itching to get to work again but the chance has not arisen yet. So you write the letter to take the credit, give the correct name and mess with the press/police/public. But, you dont want it to stir things up and make it harder for yourself to procure your next victim, so you ask the CNA to hold it back till you succeed (and thus also proving you are who you say).



IMHO, a hoaxer, would have no idea or inclination to say this, and it would only inhibit their ultimate goal to "keep the story alive".

[Ben]

Quit with the Ben/Hutch impressions, will you Tom?

...And just when I thought we were getting on so well, Caz.

Just so as to avoid confusion, everyone, I'm not writing a book, the Hutchinson theory did not originate with me, and anyone is welcome to have trouble with it, providing they outline that trouble on the appropriate thread.

...Which isn't this one.

So Dear Boss it is.

Unless...!

[Fisherman]

Caz:

"Who was he? Derren Brown (look him up) or Tommy Cooper (look him up)?"

Easily Cooper - just like that!

The best,
Fisherman

[caz]

In any event, when my book comes out, some people will think he was the Ripper, some like myself will be satisfied that he is merely the best suspect to date, and some will not see him at all as the Ripper, but will be moved by other evidence, such as that Le Grand was behind the 'From hell' letter/kidney, Batty Street Lodger story, and was most likely Pipeman. Those who don't think Stride was a Ripper victim should have no trouble at least accepting Le Grand as Stride's killer. So, I'm hoping there will be something in there for everyone.

Er, I thought this was the Dear Boss thread. Or was Lofty Le Grand lurking behind that one too? Quit with the Ben/Hutch impressions, will you Tom? Imitation may be the sincerest form of flattery but you will end up flattery on your face if you are not careful.

How can anyone have 'no trouble' accepting Le Grand as Stride's killer? The idea is beyond preposterous - a stranger who is Pipeman's lofty double succeeds in squeezing fruit-based lies from at least three bogus witnesses, to put a mythical grape-buying suspect in his place, and they all fall in with his plans, just like that? Who was he? Derren Brown (look him up) or Tommy Cooper (look him up)?

Come on Tom, start looking at your theory without the pebble glasses. It's not working. The old Red Demon would have seen it in a heartbeat if anyone else had proposed such tosh. It wouldn't even make a decent novel.

Now - Dear Boss anyone?

Love,

Caz
X

[Fisherman]

What I meant, Tom, was that much as most of us know that killers of prostitutes are regularly also users of prostitutes, we cannot simply allow ourselves to deduct that Jack was a man who had experience (sexually) of socializing with them. It does not follow, simple as that.
It is no way a bad suggestion - it is quite good - but we should not jump the gun in this, or any other, issue.

There are other examples that I could mention, one of them being that you on an adjacent thread tried to close the subject of what William Marshall would have thought to be middle age. You were sure, although there was no substantiation at all for it, that he would ONLY have regarded people of his own age (52) as being middle-aged.
I - and some other poster - dug up the fact that people in their mid forties were seen as PAST middle age, even regarded by a 75-year old Walter Dew, but you simply declined to recognize this. And that is of course your choice, if you want to handle matters in this way. But it does leave me with the feeling that you sometimes choose the solutions that fit your reasoning, and then you don´t listen to counterarguments, no matter if your own arguments lack any underbuilt whereas your counterpart´s ditto have lots of substantiation behind them.
It´s annoying, it´s not good tone - and it´s to oversimplify matters.

Don´t tell me you did not ask, Tom ...

The best,
Fisherman

[Tom_Wescott]

What did I oversimplify? Since I was speaking to you when I wrote 'geeks', I was not counting you in that bunch. I'm selective in who I allow to abuse me. It's not an oversimplification to say that many idiots who have not done their homework have made me a focal point of assault with their nutso theories and horrendous grasp of the facts, whereas I made a particular study of the Stride case BEFORE coming on here and flapping my chops. That's why you don't see me too often on Eddowes threads trying to tell Monty that he doesn't know crap about the City Police, because I'd end up being made a fool of. Was that undersimplified enough for you?

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Fisherman]

Tom W:

"You mean Le Grand, hailed far and wide as the best suspect to date? "

Yes. And no.

"I don't know what you mean by 'oversimplify'."

...and...

"...the geeks who try to take me on don't know sh*t about the Ripper crimes in general and Berner Street inparticular."

THAT is what I mean by oversimplification, Tom.

The best,
Fisherman

[mariab]

Tom, about Le Grand's handwriting, I'd totally love to research that, but I'm bound in Paris, NOT in London. If I ever ended up in the UK, but it's not planned for the near future. (Incidentally I'm looking for a job in the UK, but, due to the current economic crisis, there have been no jobs advertised in the UK for what I do since about a year.)
I've heard that Le Grand claimed that he's been to France. Now that I could totally research. (That is, IF the French decide to stop their strikes/demonstrations, as currently I've been able to see the libraries' roof in spitting distance from my apartment window, but unable to get in there.) I could also try looking in ancestry.fr under Le Grand's numerous con names, but he if was there for only a brief time, it most probably won't work. Also, as I was telling to Rob Clack a little while ago, ancestry.fr features a search for censuses, but when one conducts a census search, ALL results that come out are exclusively from voting lists (featuring only people old enough to vote), and they don't look like the typical British censuses results, with an entire family listed and so on. As I was saying to Rob, either ancestry.fr isn't working at its full potential because I haven't payed and subscribed, or the French have managed to assemble a botched tool (and the latter wouldn't surprise me too much).
But if there's any way to help research Le Grand's handwriting from outside of the UK, I'd totally love to help. I have experience with identifying handwritings (both in text and music, and in all kinds of languages), although NO official credentials whatsoever in this (unlike the notorious Elaine Quigley).

[D.B.Wagstaff]

I would assume the same. Regardless of ability to perform, quality of experience, etc. it would still be "experience".

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Maria. No, not much research has yet been done to find samples of Le Grand's handwriting. Would you like to help undertake that?

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[mariab]

Hey Tom, you got proven wrong earlier today about Best. By noone lesser than SPE. And before you got proven wrong, you misled a newbie (me) about Best, which I'm sure can be considered as a federal offense in some parts of the world.

[mariab]

D.B. Wagstaff wrote:
Does a "bad" experience count?
A “bad“ experience legally counts if payment has ensued.

[Tom_Wescott]

You mean Le Grand, hailed far and wide as the best suspect to date? No worries, plenty of room for the both of you. But your last post was just nuts and you know it. I don't know what you mean by 'oversimplify'. As for me never being wrong, I didn't say that. I've said none of the little wannabes on here, like Jon Guy, have been able to prove me wrong on these boards. And it really shouldn't be that hard to do, because I've proved myself wrong. So I think it has less to do with my omnipotence and more to do with the fact that the geeks who try to take me on don't know sh*t about the Ripper crimes in general and Berner Street inparticular.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[D.B.Wagstaff]

Here's a thought: At what point do we classify a person "a john" or as "having experience with women"? Upon payment to a prostitute? Atempt of sex act? Completion of sex act? Does a "bad" experience count?

The problem is, of course, we all have too little information and we all have different semantics and qualifications for our terms.

[mariab]

Hi Tom,
when I said “petty“ criminal, I meant as in no murders of him have been able to be identified yet, and he got busted (pun intended referring to the earlier part of this thread!) for violent acts, but not (yet?) for murder.
Have you been able to physically “identify“ BS with any of Le Grand's associates? How about with the one of them named John Tyrell or something? (Sorry, no time to look up the correct name just now.)
I'm most interested in what Jabez Balfour had to say about Le Grand, and if anything pertaining to Le Grand's arrests might have survived in the police records. Has anyone attempted searching for Le Grand's original threat letters to the old ladies in the Scotland Yard records? (Even if this is a totally newbie/Polyanna idea.) Other thoughts I was having is about people quoting a “French criminal“ suspected for the Ripper by the police (and this was also mentioned a few days ago at the Whitechapel conference). For both of this and for Ostrog I've been having suspicions that posibly the suspect meant/mixed up in these quotes might have been Le Grand.
As for the fact that there's never been a prostitute serial killer who wasn't himself a john, I totally agree, and my “problem“ with considering Le Grand was with the discrepancy between the young prostitutes he beat up and the old ones killed by the Ripper. But this discrepancy can be explained in many ways, as in, victim selection starting with weak ones (esp. if we consider Emma Smith as one of his firsts, on which he wasn't alone, but was assisted by others), plus we have evidence that he hated the guts of old (rich) ladies besides the hatred he had for young, attractive ones.
I'm positively sure that they have been gay serial killers of women, although I'm unable to quote even one. But I've heard people referring to them. Obviously it isn't the norm (as seen in Gacey, Dahmer, etc.).
Anyways, the best of lucks with your research for the book, and I really hope that you'll look up if there's evidence on Joseph Aarons on any entanglements with the police or any involvement in any schemes prior to the Lusk kidney, and also, that you get someone to research for Le Grand's handwriting. (Which I know it won't be easy at all, but one has to try.)