Surgical expertise, anatomical knowledge. So on and so forth..

[Trevor Marriott]

Totally agree with this

And you and all the others really believe that killer did all of this in 5 mins un-aided in total darkness in a blood filled abdomen.

You really do need reality checks !

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Abby Normal]

Hi Rocky,it's possible he worked in an abattoir but the doctors don't seem to think so,.I don't know what his job was,and I'm probably wrong but it makes sense to me that he enjoyed what he was doing and could have put a lot of effort into getting a job with dead people/animals

Hi Elmore and rocky

He could have been a failed doctor or medical student. However, I think more likely he had some kind of experience in military medical field, perhaps like a field surgeon of some sort or an assistant to a military Dr.

I also think its possible but less likely that he had experience cutting up animals and or learned human anatomy on his own somehow.

I think the least likely scenario is that he had none of the above but was just doing a smash and grab.

[Michael W Richards]

There are only 3 victims where this issue is relevant, because Liz Strides and Mary Kellys murder and mutilation required zero special skills or knowledge.

The physician that saw more canonicals in death than any other, Dr Phillips, though Kates wounds were not consistent with the previous victims he examined, I think that merits strong consideration. Bond saw just 1 woman and declared after using the autopsy reports that none of the victims were killed or mutilated in a very professional manner. "Not even that of a butcher's", he described the skills exhibited.

His opinion lacks the intimate examination of the wounds by eye that Phillips had, and therefore for me, any credibility.

[elmore 77]

Hi all,
Prosector's comments promote the idea that the killer had knowledge and skill,possibly acquired as a spectator, but the doctors at the time seem to say he has the knowledge but limited skill(or no skill).Richard Patterson says the removal of the heart was done using the Virchow method but I can't imagine any other way of getting it out.I think it's fair to say he had a very sharp knife and he wasn't very nice(hope that narrows it down)

[Sam Flynn]

Richard Patterson says the removal of the heart was done using the Virchow method but I can't imagine any other way of getting it out.

... the Heimlich manœuvre?

Only kidding

[DJA]

Richard Patterson says the removal of the heart was done using the Virchow method but I can't imagine any other way of getting it out.I think it's fair to say he had a very sharp knife and he wasn't very nice(hope that narrows it down)

You have absolutely no idea what you are on about!

[elmore 77]

Sam, That could work,it might account for the cries of 'oh murder' as he threw her around the room
Enjoyed your Eddowes dissertation btw

[elmore 77]

You have absolutely no idea what you are on about!

You noticed!
I read it once and as I remember it,it was just about pulling it out under the rib cage,but my point was more about him suggesting surgical skill not about me knowing what it was

[DJA]

Quite funny

Ironically, you are not that far from the truth.

[Observer]

I think it's fair to say he had a very sharp knife and he wasn't very nice(hope that narrows it down)

Spot on Elmore. Anyone who believes there was any skilled involved during the butchering of those poor women is beyongd me.

[Wickerman]

And you and all the others really believe that killer did all of this in 5 mins un-aided in total darkness in a blood filled abdomen.

You really do need reality checks !

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

The only reason for this 5 minutes is Lawende's testimony, if he didn't see Kate, as I believe, then we are not limited to the 5 minutes (about 9 actually - from 1:35 to 1:44).
Lawende's suspect wasn't 'Jack' and the woman was not Kate - in my view. There's no need to make this crime more mysterious than it already is.

[Michael W Richards]

Spot on Elmore. Anyone who believes there was any skilled involved during the butchering of those poor women is beyongd me.

So the fact that in September the police were actively seeking out medical practitioners, medical students and surgically trained practitioners means little to you then?

Its humorous how often people here offer opinions that fly in the face of the accepted evidence.

The facts are that Annie Chapmans murder was committed by someone with both skill sets, knowledge and knife skills. that was the opinion of the medical examiner, and the police, But...of course, your hunch is worth much more than any actual evidence.

[Observer]

So the fact that in September the police were actively seeking out medical practitioners, medical students and surgically trained practitioners means little to you then?

It meant little to the police either after they'd exhausted that avenue of inquiry, and moved on realising that

"medical students and surgically trained practitioners"

had nothing to do with the crimes.

Its humorous how often people here offer opinions that fly in the face of the accepted evidence.

I'ts humerous the way in which you interpret the evidence relating to this case. More of that in a while.

I'm in good company regarding the medical evidence if not with fantasists, who post here on this forum, then certainly with Doctor Bond who rightly declared that the killer did not display any surgical skills.

The facts are that Annie Chapmans murder was committed by someone with both skill sets, knowledge and knife skills. that was the opinion of the medical examiner, and the police, But...of course, your hunch is worth much more than any actual evidence.

The opinion of the police? What input regarding surgical skills would any of the police officers involved in the case be able to contribute? And as I said it 's not just my ("hunch"?) but the opinion of Doctor Bond as well.

[Trevor Marriott]

The only reason for this 5 minutes is Lawende's testimony, if he didn't see Kate, as I believe, then we are not limited to the 5 minutes (about 9 actually - from 1:35 to 1:44).
Lawende's suspect wasn't 'Jack' and the woman was not Kate - in my view. There's no need to make this crime more mysterious than it already is.

5 or 9 minutes is still not enough time for the killer to do all that he is supposed to have done, having regards for the issues previously mentioned coupled with medical experts corroborating this. You don't seem to reālise that to locate and take hold of a kidney is a difficult task at the best of times because of where it sits at the back of the abdominal cavity and it sits in renal fact making it almost impossible to feel without ample lighting to see.it is also difficult to take hold of.
So put all these factors together points to the killer not being responsible for the removal of the organs from Eddowes

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Wickerman]

5 or 9 minutes is still not enough time for the killer to do all that he is supposed to have done, having regards for the issues previously mentioned coupled with medical experts corroborating this. You don't seem to reālise that to locate and take hold of a kidney is a difficult task at the best of times because of where it sits at the back of the abdominal cavity and it sits in renal fact making it almost impossible to feel without ample lighting to see.it is also difficult to take hold of.
So put all these factors together points to the killer not being responsible for the removal of the organs from Eddowes

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

I don't know why you are arguing with me Trevor, my post suggested the killer had more time than the traditionally assumed 9 minutes (not 5 as you implied).
My view is the killer was already engaged in the mutilations in the square when Lawende came out of the club.