Pierre's research so far...

[Michael W Richards]

^ How do we know that the solder on the kettle burned off on the occasion of the murder though, (unless Abberline felt the kettle and it was still red-hot of course)? The spout could have dropped off days or weeks before.

I don't think that poor Mary was such a careful housewife that every time a pot or pan broke she took the pennies she'd been carefully saving and hurried off to the hardware shop. Tea was her probably not her beverage of choice but, having made a cuppa in a Billy can, that tastes just as good as from a kettle with a spout. She managed!

That fire and what was put on it always fascinates me. How does a poverty-stricken someone with no visible means of support (so to speak) have so much fuel in her miserable room that her killer was able to maintain a blazing fire for some time? Kindling and coal costs money. Clothing smothers flame apparently, not cause it to flare up and blaze.

We don't know that the spout solder melted that night Rosella, good point, and we have no evidence that suggests at any time there was a large on that particular light. We only know that light was seen in the room when Mary and Blotchy were inside, and Mary was singing. That ended before 1am, as did the light in the room.

Fires were often built using dung found in the streets, so no major investment needed. But there is one interesting factoid about the fire...Abberline and other investigators sieved the ashes on Friday afternoon...and found the hat rim and the fabric swatch. So why would Abberline and his squad re-sieve them Saturday morning? looking for traces of the heart they found missing...surely biological material would have stood out amongst the ash on the first sieving.

Heres my thought...they re-sieved to see if tiny identifiable fragments of something was in there...what kinds of things are identifiable even in partial form. Things with numbers on them...like money, or stamps. A few hundred pounds of stamps were stolen the night of the so called Double Event.

[Mayerling]

But was it the Ripper's? Did he stop for a tea break during his grisly work?

Well it depends. If he suddenly got hungry he might have had something (Mary's heart, for example) to snack on when heated. Or he might have been influenced by Lewis Carroll (I'm not suggesting he WAS Lewis Carroll) and had a tea party with the March Hare, the dormouse, and the Mad Hatter.

Jeff

[Mayerling]

Hi everyone,

I am considering to give you a little Christmas gift next week. But only considering. I haven´t decided yet.

It all depends on how naughty you are here. The naughtier, the better the chance for a gift.

Regards Pierre

Thanks but no thanks. I had to peruse "Queen Mary" due to one of your "presents" regarding Alfred, Lord Tennyson. If you suggest a connection with Robert Browning now I may end up having to struggle through "Pippa Passes". All's not right with the world!

Jeff

[Shaggyrand]

Hi Abby

I was only saying that it didn't have to be a large fire going off anything that's known about it. If the cops at the time knew something else, fine but its constantly referred to as a "large fire" and unless there's more to it... That's not necessarily true. I've seen the fire referred to several times. It's not important and doesn't mean anything either way. It doesn't really change anything. But folks quibble endlessly over a meaningless bit of scribble on a wall. Why should the fire be exempt?

Um. What does Pierre mean by "naughty"? I'm not sending any naked pics in PMs. Learned my lesson about that before.

[Ginger]

Hi Ginger
Considering that clothes were also burned in the fire, along with the spout and or solder melting, and along with the fact that abberline was there and assessed the situation in person, I think its a safe bet that it was probably a rather hot and thereby large fire.

You're quite correct. I'm not entirely sure what I was thinking there.

[Rosella]

^ I think there are lots of things to be said about the fire actually, which has always been a source of fascination to me, such as was there kindling available to start it off in the first place or did Jack just set a match to a petticoat and throw it in the grate, did the solder on that spout come off on the night of the murder or before, what does the quantity of ash really say about the strength of the fire and its fuel. Was it still warm in the room when the police finally got in?

It was only a wretched little grate. It's a wonder Jack didn't set the chimney on fire if the blaze was that huge (pity he didn't! Somebody might have seen him rush out!)

[DJA]

Was it still warm in the room when the police finally got in?

It was only a wretched little grate.

According to Abberline,the room was still warm at 1.30 pm.

It was a fairly typical Victorian fireplace using a <12" long piece of wood or two.
Used to be quite common in Melbourne.Grew up with one until we converted to gas in the 1960s.
We had a wood burning stove and a boiler for as the laundry.

Conducted a business plan on the firewood industry 30 years ago.

[Pcdunn]

Failed arson?

^
It was only a wretched little grate. It's a wonder Jack didn't set the chimney on fire if the blaze was that huge (pity he didn't! Somebody might have seen him rush out!)

Hmmm... I wonder if Jack shared some of the behavioral attributes of serial killers as described by modern investigators. Fire setting is one of these, (along with animal torture), and I know that is seen by some as a strike against Francis Thompson.

Did Jack build up a hot fire in an abortive attempt at arson? Did he mean to burn the room (and maybe McCarthy's building) down?

If the body on the bed was not really Mary Kelly (assuming those who saw her the following morning were telling the truth), would we ever have known this, if the fire had done more than simply melt the spout off a kettle?

[Rosella]

Maybe I'm just interested because I grew up with open fires in England. Never burned any clothing but I can well remember the 'fire-laying' ceremony every day in winter and scraping out and disposing of the ash and then laying kindling in a pattern on top of curls of newspaper!

Quite obviously Mary's grate wouldn't have been laid out like that and Jack probably just bundled up clothing and put a match to it directly in the grate. I don't think he was bothered about whether the place caught on fire or not, so long as he got out. However, I can't imagine McCarthy calling in chimney sweeps regularly so the chimney might well have been choked with old soot!

[Mayerling]

Quite obviously Mary's grate wouldn't have been laid out like that and Jack probably just bundled up clothing and put a match to it directly in the grate. I don't think he was bothered about whether the place caught on fire or not, so long as he got out. However, I can't imagine McCarthy calling in chimney sweeps regularly so the chimney might well have been choked with old soot!

I'm not sure about that Rosella. If he is the registered owner of that property, and it is being rented to tenants, there may have been city ordinances requiring him to regularly clean out the chimney flues of soot. McCarthy may have had little choice in the matter.

Jeff

[Elamarna]

Nice to see that Pierre as started to post on other threads on other murders apart from Kelly. I suggested this yesterday too him.

His brief comment on Mizen was ok, clear and utterly non-contentious, Was tempted to tell him I agreed with him.

Of course he has promised us a xmas present if we are bad, so lets wait to see if he offers us some evidence, if so do hope its not metaphorical again

you know I am coming to the conclusion, that for some reason, he thinks we are all here to stop the truth coming out, When he gets shall we say upset, he does tend to say that.
it was the same when he heard that 1 version of MJK3 appears to have been manipulated. he called it disgusting and that we were all ex police or journalists.

in a spirit of goodwill I sincerely wish Pierre a very happy Xmas and new year.

[Robert St Devil]

Hmmm... I wonder if Jack shared some of the behavioral attributes of serial killers as described by modern investigators. Fire setting is one of these, (along with animal torture), and I know that is seen by some as a strike against Francis Thompson.

Did Jack build up a hot fire in an abortive attempt at arson? Did he mean to burn the room (and maybe McCarthy's building) down?

If the body on the bed was not really Mary Kelly (assuming those who saw her the following morning were telling the truth), would we ever have known this, if the fire had done more than simply melt the spout off a kettle?

Im glad you brought this up PCDunn, altho i have no idea where to go with it. I was using the Son of Sam murders as a comparative (the anonymous letters, random killings without sexual assault, a season of terror gridlocking the city) in order to defermine how he was apprehended, thinking the same line of investigation might uncover new prrspectives regarding the ripper. Arson was a characteristic familiar to Berkowitz. Leaving no stone unturned, it may serve a tertiary purpose to look into the arsons and animal killings in London 88, if only to see if there is a cult aspect to the case going overlooked.

However, i would think if he wanted to burn her apartment down, he wouldve started the fire on her bed. It sounds like the ripper was disposing of evidence.

[el_pombo]

Every time this thread crops up on New Posts I wonder

"Does anyone actually believe that Pierre has done any research?"

I'm starting to wonder if Pierre is a sophisticated Artificial Intelligence computer researching about how long it's possible to keep a conversation using as many words as possible without saying anything.

[DJA]

Lab rats get used to not responding after 7 non productive attempts.

Poker machine players a smidge more.

Ripperologists.....ROFL!

[MysterySinger]

Well there was some stale bread on the shelves in Mary's room, perhaps Jack wanted to make himself some toast on the fire. Or an even simpler solution - it was raining apparently that night, maybe he just wanted to dry off his overcoat by the fire?