The Whitehall Mystery

[jerryd]

So you are suggesting that a carpenter working in the building could have been the killer? Well, that would certainly take care of the question how he could find his way around the place.

The problem I would have with the suggestion is that it would be crapping on your own doorstep, and it would seem this killer - if it was just the one killer - did not do so otherwise.

Nevertheless, itīs a worthwhile suggestion on your behalf!

Only a suggestion, Christer, because of the sash cords. I lean towards someone working for the Board of Works or at least someone directed by a person working for the Board of Works.

Paul Begg and John Bennett explain in their book, Jack the Ripper, The Forgotten Victims (a very good read by the way), about the underground passages that were designed by Mapleson (National Opera House architect), when he was building the Opera House. One underground passageway led from the Opera House site into the Houses of Parliament and another (eastern side) led to a station of the district railway which was incorporated into the Scotland Yard building. According to the book, this eastern tunnel 'enabled the police to move men around without bringing them onto the streets'.

With that in mind, it opens up many possibilities for someone familiar with these passageways to enter the site. The underground labyrinth was already in place when the work on the Opera House was halted and the construction of Police headquarters began.

The following link has some information about Mapleson, the Opera house and the tunnels.

http://www.arthurlloyd.co.uk/NationalOperaHouseEmbankment.htm

[Fisherman]

Only a suggestion, Christer, because of the sash cords. I lean towards someone working for the Board of Works or at least someone directed by a person working for the Board of Works.

Paul Begg and John Bennett explain in their book, Jack the Ripper, The Forgotten Victims (a very good read by the way), about the underground passages that were designed by Mapleson (National Opera House architect), when he was building the Opera House. One underground passageway led from the Opera House site into the Houses of Parliament and another (eastern side) led to a station of the district railway which was incorporated into the Scotland Yard building. According to the book, this eastern tunnel 'enabled the police to move men around without bringing them onto the streets'.

With that in mind, it opens up many possibilities for someone familiar with these passageways to enter the site. The underground labyrinth was already in place when the work on the Opera House was halted and the construction of Police headquarters began.

The following link has some information about Mapleson, the Opera house and the tunnels.

http://www.arthurlloyd.co.uk/Nationa...Embankment.htm

Thanks - Iīll give it a read.

Is your overall impression that most or all of the torso cases were the work of one man only, and if so - to what extent do you think he may have used underground routes in his deeds? It all sound a bit "Phantom of the Opera" to my ears, but hey, if it provides a plausible solution I am very prepared to throw my prejudices overboard!

[jerryd]

Minor correction, Mapleson was not the architect. That would have been F. H. Fowler.

[John G]

Only a suggestion, Christer, because of the sash cords. I lean towards someone working for the Board of Works or at least someone directed by a person working for the Board of Works.

Paul Begg and John Bennett explain in their book, Jack the Ripper, The Forgotten Victims (a very good read by the way), about the underground passages that were designed by Mapleson (National Opera House architect), when he was building the Opera House. One underground passageway led from the Opera House site into the Houses of Parliament and another (eastern side) led to a station of the district railway which was incorporated into the Scotland Yard building. According to the book, this eastern tunnel 'enabled the police to move men around without bringing them onto the streets'.

With that in mind, it opens up many possibilities for someone familiar with these passageways to enter the site. The underground labyrinth was already in place when the work on the Opera House was halted and the construction of Police headquarters began.

The following link has some information about Mapleson, the Opera house and the tunnels.

http://www.arthurlloyd.co.uk/Nationa...Embankment.htm

But at the time the torso was discovered only the foundations of the building had been completed. Surely at this stage there could not have been a linking tunnel to the the Scotland Yard building as it hadn't been built! Moreover, attempting to link a tunnel to the foundations would presumably have been a crazy idea, resulting in serious instability problems.

[Fisherman]

But at the time the torso was discovered only the foundations of the building had been completed. Surely at this stage there could not have been a linking tunnel to the the Scotland Yard building as it hadn't been built! Moreover, attempting to link a tunnel to the foundations would presumably have been a crazy idea, resulting in serious instability problems.

I think you need to read the article Jerry links to, John - in it, it is pointed out that there was a passageway already at the time when the building was intended to become an operahouse, before, that is, the torso events of 1888.

[jerryd]

Thanks - Iīll give it a read.

Is your overall impression that most or all of the torso cases were the work of one man only, and if so - to what extent do you think he may have used underground routes in his deeds? It all sound a bit "Phantom of the Opera" to my ears, but hey, if it provides a plausible solution I am very prepared to throw my prejudices overboard!

Christer,

That is the million dollar question!

Several years back I began thinking about the underground aspect for both the JTR murders and the torsos. I just could not wrap my head around the fact that these women, and body parts (torsos), were appearing all over the east end and west side of London, murdered in a relatively short amount of time to work (with police and other presence) and no one saw or heard the killer. That, to me, is the real Phantom of the Opera story. It seemed impossible to believe this killer could be such a magician. But was he?

That's when I started investigating possible underground access to all the crime scenes. In my research I started seeing a pattern with the Board of Works. Not only the land they controlled near many of these crime scenes, but men employed by them seemed to be all around when the murders occurred (reference to sewer workers, scavengers, etc). Add to that the strange coincidence of the From Hell Letter and the fact George Lusk was a board member for a vestry of the Board of Works in the east end. The Board of Works were a powerful group without much control over them from above. I call them a "rogue agency" even though I'm sure someone had to be watching their moves to a certain extent.

Then I started looking at the sewer system and possibilities there. I started a thread on the JTRforums called, Stinky Jack, where I was able to show some of the sewer routes in realtion to the murder scenes. It made some sense to me that the underground would have made a nice 'duck out' for escaping undetected. Also, Bernard Brown's research on JTR being a Railway policeman made sense to me, and still does for that matter.

As far as one man for the torsos? My current feeling, please don't hold me to this forever as it may change (lol), is that there is a 'group of killers' all in it for the same purpose. What that purpose is? I don't have a clue. But one, or more, were cutting up bodies in the West end and another was murdering in the east end. I think they were aware of each other and had the same goal as an end result. They both seemed to mock the authorities and showed it with the way they operated. I personally feel the John Arnold story, if solved, could show the link between the two.

[John G]

Christer,

That is the million dollar question!

Several years back I began thinking about the underground aspect for both the JTR murders and the torsos. I just could not wrap my head around the fact that these women, and body parts (torsos), were appearing all over the east end and west side of London, murdered in a relatively short amount of time to work (with police and other presence) and no one saw or heard the killer. That, to me, is the real Phantom of the Opera story. It seemed impossible to believe this killer could be such a magician. But was he?

That's when I started investigating possible underground access to all the crime scenes. In my research I started seeing a pattern with the Board of Works. Not only the land they controlled near many of these crime scenes, but men employed by them seemed to be all around when the murders occurred (reference to sewer workers, scavengers, etc). Add to that the strange coincidence of the From Hell Letter and the fact George Lusk was a board member for a vestry of the Board of Works in the east end. The Board of Works were a powerful group without much control over them from above. I call them a "rogue agency" even though I'm sure someone had to be watching their moves to a certain extent.

Then I started looking at the sewer system and possibilities there. I started a thread on the JTRforums called, Stinky Jack, where I was able to show some of the sewer routes in realtion to the murder scenes. It made some sense to me that the underground would have made a nice 'duck out' for escaping undetected. Also, Bernard Brown's research on JTR being a Railway policeman made sense to me, and still does for that matter.

As far as one man for the torsos? My current feeling, please don't hold me to this forever as it may change (lol), is that there is a 'group of killers' all in it for the same purpose. What that purpose is? I don't have a clue. But one, or more, were cutting up bodies in the West end and another was murdering in the east end. I think they were aware of each other and had the same goal as an end result. They both seemed to mock the authorities and showed it with the way they operated. I personally feel the John Arnold story, if solved, could show the link between the two.

Hi Jerry,

Wasn't it also the case that the Whitechapel murders were very close to underground railway stations?

[jerryd]

But at the time the torso was discovered only the foundations of the building had been completed. Surely at this stage there could not have been a linking tunnel to the the Scotland Yard building as it hadn't been built! Moreover, attempting to link a tunnel to the foundations would presumably have been a crazy idea, resulting in serious instability problems.

Hi John,

Mapleson stated he had plans to link the opera house to the district railway underground on the east side. This would provide access to the Opera House from all over London. Paul Begg then states that this tunnel was incorporated into the Scotland Yard building and used to escort people underground without being on the streets. That means it must have actually been completed prior to the construction of Scotland Yard.

Where this tunnel lead to exactly, I don't know. Someone familiar with it, though, could have entered the general area underground, without notice, and then enter the vault, perhaps.

[jerryd]

Hi Jerry,

Wasn't it also the case that the Whitechapel murders were very close to underground railway stations?

Hi John,

Rather than re-invent the wheel, here is a the archive on Bernard Brown's research.

http://forum.casebook.org/archive/index.php/t-185.html

[jerryd]

One other thing, Christer,

I feel the torsos were either the higher class brothel women from the west side, or they were ladies attending the many theatres of the west end. So maybe your Phantom of the Opera, fits!

[jerryd]

I hope Debra A. doesn't mind me quoting her from the "Stinky Jack" thread on the other forum but it's relevant here.

Debs wrote:

"There was a manhole with sewer access in the chamber next to the vault the Whitehall torso was found in.
I also seem to recall that there was suggestion that the arm (belonging to the Whitehall torso) found in Sept in the Thames may have come through an overflow pipe of some sort."

[Fisherman]

jerryd: Christer,

That is the million dollar question!

Several years back I began thinking about the underground aspect for both the JTR murders and the torsos. I just could not wrap my head around the fact that these women, and body parts (torsos), were appearing all over the east end and west side of London, murdered in a relatively short amount of time to work (with police and other presence) and no one saw or heard the killer. That, to me, is the real Phantom of the Opera story. It seemed impossible to believe this killer could be such a magician. But was he?

Well, as you will be aware, I think he was no magician at all, but instead the beneficiary of sloppy police work and societal prejudice! And today, he is still protected, but more markedly by personal prestige.
However, I am quite enthusiastic about work like yours, since it explores other paths (or should I say tunnels?), thus expanding the case into areas that are very interesting.

That's when I started investigating possible underground access to all the crime scenes. In my research I started seeing a pattern with the Board of Works. Not only the land they controlled near many of these crime scenes, but men employed by them seemed to be all around when the murders occurred (reference to sewer workers, scavengers, etc). Add to that the strange coincidence of the From Hell Letter and the fact George Lusk was a board member for a vestry of the Board of Works in the east end. The Board of Works were a powerful group without much control over them from above. I call them a "rogue agency" even though I'm sure someone had to be watching their moves to a certain extent.

Obviously, I need to read up somewhat on all of this. A rogue agency - thatīs harsh words indeed.

Then I started looking at the sewer system and possibilities there. I started a thread on the JTRforums called, Stinky Jack, where I was able to show some of the sewer routes in realtion to the murder scenes. It made some sense to me that the underground would have made a nice 'duck out' for escaping undetected. Also, Bernard Brown's research on JTR being a Railway policeman made sense to me, and still does for that matter.

I`m all ears!

As far as one man for the torsos? My current feeling, please don't hold me to this forever as it may change (lol),...

Personally, I wonīt hold you to it - others may, though. Such is the world of Ripperology.
I sometimes wish that proof would surface telling us that Lechmere could not have been the killer, only to enable me to immediately drop him and look for other solutions. That, I believe, is what we need to do in such situations, and I would love to see the faces of some of the posters out here if it happened.
Of course, I would be even happier if proof surfaced that told us that Lechmere must have been the Ripper...

... is that there is a 'group of killers' all in it for the same purpose. What that purpose is? I don't have a clue. But one, or more, were cutting up bodies in the West end and another was murdering in the east end. I think they were aware of each other and had the same goal as an end result. They both seemed to mock the authorities and showed it with the way they operated. I personally feel the John Arnold story, if solved, could show the link between the two.

That is very interesting, and I can relate to it - I also have a reoccurring feeling that the series of murders are more interconnected by the underlying thinking more than by the way the victims were cut/dispatched/left. That, by the way, is why I do not rule out that the killer could have been one and the same - if he was more interested in the message the murdering brought to his environment than in the acts themselves, then we should widen the scope of acceptance for more or less radically differing circumstances.
Itīs a good thing that such a debate can be had today, unlike some years back, when you were dubbed a Ripper paria for thinkig out loud along these lines!

[Fisherman]

One other thing, Christer,

I feel the torsos were either the higher class brothel women from the west side, or they were ladies attending the many theatres of the west end. So maybe your Phantom of the Opera, fits!

Any thoughts about the Harriett Buswell murder as a possible link...? It is an interesting case, I feel.

[Debra A]

One other thing, Christer,

I feel the torsos were either the higher class brothel women from the west side, or they were ladies attending the many theatres of the west end. So maybe your Phantom of the Opera, fits!

As much as I have come to love your work, Jerry-I can't agree with this, there doesn't seem to be any evidence to support this, especially in 3 of the cases 87-89.. and the 'exotic' woman with the rose tattoo died a death when it was revealed to be a plain old stain from red tape.

[RockySullivan]

I hope Debra A. doesn't mind me quoting her from the "Stinky Jack" thread on the other forum but it's relevant here.

Debs wrote:

"There was a manhole with sewer access in the chamber next to the vault the Whitehall torso was found in.
I also seem to recall that there was suggestion that the arm (belonging to the Whitehall torso) found in Sept in the Thames may have come through an overflow pipe of some sort."

There was a manhole with sewer access next to the vault with the torso? Very fascinating...debs do you remember where you found this info?

Jerry, do you know if Messr Grover was a member of the board of works?