The Whitehall Mystery

[Fisherman]

Hi Fisherman,

Not quite 13 years. There's the Tottenham Torso (1884), which I believe to be part of the same series.

... making it ten years of silence. Yes.

[Trevor Marriott]

Nice.
lets see-mary Kelly found mutilated in a Chemise and the pinchin street torso also. interesting.

I would say I agree with the following scenario=prostitute goes to a punters place for that purpose and is killed and cut up there. I would also posit that it was somewhere near Pinchin.

A chemise was a common Victorian item of womens underwear !

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Fisherman]

And still you are trying to pin the tail on the donkey !

Can´t you read, Trevor...?

[Fisherman]

A chemise was a common Victorian item of womens underwear !

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

How common were chemise-clad women who had had their bellies cut open, Trevor?

[Fisherman]

Nice.
lets see-mary Kelly found mutilated in a Chemise and the pinchin street torso also. interesting.

I would say I agree with the following scenario=prostitute goes to a punters place for that purpose and is killed and cut up there. I would also posit that it was somewhere near Pinchin.

That´s more or less my take on things too. Pinhorn said that there were sack marks on the body, letting on that it had been carried to the dumping place. So yes, close to Pinchin Street!

147 Cable springs to mind.

[John G]

... making it ten years of silence. Yes.

Yes, although he could, of course, have been abroad or in an institution-prison, asylum-during the intervening period.

[Fisherman]

Yes, although he could, of course, have been abroad or in an institution-prison, asylum-during the intervening period.

Yes - or he could kill in another fashion. The options and possibilities are endless.

[John G]

Nice.
lets see-mary Kelly found mutilated in a Chemise and the pinchin street torso also. interesting.

I would say I agree with the following scenario=prostitute goes to a punters place for that purpose and is killed and cut up there. I would also posit that it was somewhere near Pinchin.

Berner Street is near Pinchin Street! Mind you, I think that the killer probably had access to a boat. I think the links to the Thames are the key. Thus, body parts thrown into the Thames; Liz Jackson sleeping rough on the embankment; the New Scotland Yard building on the embankment, which could be accessed via a boat- surely a better alternative than carrying body parts over a 9ft fence on at least two occasions!

And,of course, a boat would be a perfect place to carry out the dismemberments.

[Fisherman]

Berner Street is near Pinchin Street! Mind you, I think that the killer probably had access to a boat. I think the links to the Thames are the key. Thus, body parts thrown into the Thames; Liz Jackson sleeping rough on the embankment; the New Scotland Yard building on the embankment, which could be accessed via a boat- surely a better alternative than carrying body parts over a 9ft fence on at least two occasions!

There was a gate leading into the building site that was unlocked, as I remember it. It could be opened by some clever move, that you needed to know about. However, it was said that nobody but those in the know would make their way to the vault where the body was found, so if the killer knew that part, then why would he not be able to master the gate too?

That´s not to say he could not have come by boat - but scaling the fence was not the only other alternative.

[John Wheat]

Berner Street is near Pinchin Street! Mind you, I think that the killer probably had access to a boat. I think the links to the Thames are the key. Thus, body parts thrown into the Thames; Liz Jackson sleeping rough on the embankment; the New Scotland Yard building on the embankment, which could be accessed via a boat- surely a better alternative than carrying body parts over a 9ft fence on at least two occasions!

And,of course, a boat would be a perfect place to carry out the dismemberments.

To John

The idea the killer had access to the boat is intriguing. I had never considered that before.

Cheers John

[John Wheat]

I don´t think there is a single poster on this thread who would say that they were probably the same. There are, though, those who would say that they were possibly the same. And a lot of likenesses have been mentioned to bolster that take, as you will see if you go through the posts.

Why do the Ripper murders not go back to 1873? You tell me! Why is there a gap from 1874 to 1887? That´s thirteen years. How do we explain that? Should he not kill one woman per year, all in the exact same fashion ...?

Have you noticed that the torso killers deeds are mostly concentrated around 1888? Could it be that it was one killer only, whose urges peaked at this remove in time? Was that why he went on to kill out in the streets too, for a shorter, high-heated period?

It´s anybody´s guess. And it´s anybody´s right to explore too.

To Fisherman

I think you'll find there are posters who believe the Torso Killer and the Ripper were one and the same. There wasn't a gap of thirteen years as John G said there was the murder in 1884. The torso killers deeds were not concentrated about 1888 he murdered in 1873, 1874, 1884, 1887, 1888 and 1889. It is anybody's right to explore I will agree with you on that point.

Cheers John

[Fisherman]

To Fisherman

I think you'll find there are posters who believe the Torso Killer and the Ripper were one and the same. There wasn't a gap of thirteen years as John G said there was the murder in 1884. The torso killers deeds were not concentrated about 1888 he murdered in 1873, 1874, 1884, 1887, 1888 and 1889. It is anybody's right to explore I will agree with you on that point.

Cheers John

You may notice that there are three murders centered around 1888. There were two in 1873-74. And a solitary one in 1884.

I don´t know how you read it, but to me that says that the main artery ran right alongside the Ripper killings.

I don´t doubt that there are posters who may think that the killers were on and the same - but what I said was that on this thread, nobody has expressed any such certainty.

Small distinctions, I´m sure. But I usually try to avoid making points with no underlying substantiation.

[John Wheat]

Small distinctions, I´m sure. But I usually try to avoid making points with no underlying substantiation.

I disagree with your point about no underlying substantiation I've read many of your posts on Crossmere.

Cheers John

[Trevor Marriott]

How common were chemise-clad women who had had their bellies cut open, Trevor?

That would depend on what they were having their bellies cut open for

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Trevor Marriott]

Yes - or he could kill in another fashion. The options and possibilities are endless.

And every day on your return from Fantasy Island you come out with a new one.

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk