Mass debating on the Ripper - no hard feelings

[Paddy Goose]

Iin addition to what I wrote above about the L-word I will say one more thing and this is my final rant on the subject. I promise.

I have a deeper aversion to the L-word suspect theory than just I saw it all go down right here on Casebook, that is - Christer finding his own ingrown toenail suspect to win his grudge match with Ben once and for all.

I find the L-word suspect theory highly insulting to the workingmen of the East End in history.

[Tom_Wescott]

Look at the jagged cut from Eddowes breastbone down to her pubes with the deviation around her navel and tell me that couldn't have been done with a slicing knife.

Her injuries were inflicted by a sharp knife with a sharp tip, which the Coram knife was not. I do agree it should have come up during the inquest. Dr. Phillips had been summoned to appear, and was presumably there, but was not called. That is one of the point he could have been asked about. The movements of John Kelly and Eddowes could have been inquired into more closely and openly. Of course, I realize I'm armchair quarterbacking.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[The Rookie Detective]

Her injuries were inflicted by a sharp knife with a sharp tip, which the Coram knife was not. I do agree it should have come up during the inquest. Dr. Phillips had been summoned to appear, and was presumably there, but was not called. That is one of the point he could have been asked about. The movements of John Kelly and Eddowes could have been inquired into more closely and openly. Of course, I realize I'm armchair quarterbacking.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

That's one of the major things I find frustrating about the Ripper case; the lack of asking fairly obvious questions, and pursuing lines of enquiry that seemed to have been overlooked.
While hindsight is a glorious thing, there are still many many aspects of the case that were dealt with (or not dealt with) poorly.

Certain key witnesses not appearing at inquests
Obvious questions not being asked at key times
GSG removal

etc...etc...

the list is too long to write.


Of course, the losing of police files is arguably the biggest frustration.


Although, you can bet your bottom dollar that someone somewhere has them tucked away in their loft.

[Marcel Prost]

Irritating things about the Ripper case...


We're still wasting time discussing the Diary,

Sooner or later every thread ends up being about Lechmere,

Books that claim the case is closed, despite it being virtually impossible, given the lack of evidence, to identify Jack the Ripper beyond a shadow of a doubt,

People defending their favourite suspect with religious fanaticism, ignoring any logical arguments.

[The Rookie Detective]

Irritating things about the Ripper case...


We're still wasting time discussing the Diary,

Sooner or later every thread ends up being about Lechmere,

Books that claim the case is closed, despite it being virtually impossible, given the lack of evidence, to identify Jack the Ripper beyond a shadow of a doubt,

People defending their favourite suspect with religious fanaticism, ignoring any logical arguments.

Totally agree, great points there.

[Lewis C]

That's one of the major things I find frustrating about the Ripper case; the lack of asking fairly obvious questions, and pursuing lines of enquiry that seemed to have been overlooked.
While hindsight is a glorious thing, there are still many many aspects of the case that were dealt with (or not dealt with) poorly.

Certain key witnesses not appearing at inquests
Obvious questions not being asked at key times
GSG removal

etc...etc...

the list is too long to write.


Of course, the losing of police files is arguably the biggest frustration.


Although, you can bet your bottom dollar that someone somewhere has them tucked away in their loft.

It seems to be widely believed that at least some of the files were destroyed in the German bombing during WW2.

[Scott Nelson]

Her injuries were inflicted by a sharp knife with a sharp tip, which the Coram knife was not.

Coroner at the Stride Inquest: Was there anything in the cut that showed the incision first made was done with a pointed knife? Phillips: No.

Dr. Blackwell then mentioned that he was informed that slaughtermen always used round-pointed instruments.

[Wickerman]

Look at the jagged cut from Eddowes breastbone down to her pubes with the deviation around her navel and tell me that couldn't have been done with a slicing knife.

Thomas Coram found the knife 30 minutes before Stride was murdered, and a good hour before Eddowes.

[Wickerman]

Iin addition to what I wrote above about the L-word I will say one more thing and this is my final rant on the subject. I promise.

I have a deeper aversion to the L-word suspect theory than just I saw it all go down right here on Casebook, that is - Christer finding his own ingrown toenail suspect to win his grudge match with Ben once and for all.

I find the L-word suspect theory highly insulting to the workingmen of the East End in history.

I think it should stand as an example, and a caution to future theorists, of how an accusation can be fabricated against anyone.

[Wickerman]

Her injuries were inflicted by a sharp knife with a sharp tip, which the Coram knife was not. . .

Skin that is loose is very difficult to cut, unless the knife is very sharp.
By this I mean a person who has lost weight, or had a larger build, or a woman that had been pregnant, her abdomen now deflated. The mortuary photo of Eddowes shows a body in such a state.

Obviously there has been considerable blood loss in Eddowes case which only adds to the emaciated appearance, but she is seen as a slight woman in life not heavy built like Chapman.
So, when a knife is dragged across a body with loose, sagging skin, the skin ruffles up against the blade, making it very difficult to slice through. What begins as a straight slash will often result in a jagged cut, caused by those same ripples, not any sawing action with the blade.

We've all read that police, crime analysts, forensic scientists typically use pig carcasses to test the use of weaponry, as it is most like the human body.
My first three years out of school was as a butchers apprentice, so I picked up a lot of insight in the use of knives on a carcass, the closest thing to the human body.

[Wickerman]

That's one of the major things I find frustrating about the Ripper case; the lack of asking fairly obvious questions, and pursuing lines of enquiry that seemed to have been overlooked. . .

Bear in mind though Chris, the Court Recorder was taking notes in Long-hand, he has not the time to write all the exchanges that take place.
All that is legally required is that pertinent notes are recorded in case this eventually goes to trial.
Which means his attention is focused on "just the facts", or details that may be of consequence in a trial.
The police still retain all the evidence, so it is not necessary to record every obvious question.

Then there's the press, while they are required (as part of their job) to use short-hand, so as capture most, if not all that is said. The newspaper editor will then cut the details down to fit in whatever space he has on that day. Which can often mean eliminating obvious details, while retaining the most interesting points.

You've often heard me state that it is wrong to pick one newspaper account over another. It is always best to collate all the press accounts to get a broader view of the inquest coverage.

[Scott Nelson]

Thomas Coram found the knife 30 minutes before Stride was murdered, and a good hour before Eddowes.

No. Stride and Eddowes were killed at 1:00 am and just before 1:45 am on September 30th. The Coram knife was found on the sidewalk of Whitechapel Road almost 24 hours later at approximately 12:30 am on October 1st.

[GBinOz]

No. Stride and Eddowes were killed at 1:00 am and just before 1:45 am on September 30th. The Coram knife was found on the sidewalk of Whitechapel Road almost 24 hours later at approximately 12:30 am on October 1st.

That is also my understanding Scott.

[Losmandris]

Possibly not so much of the case now. But a few months ago every thread, no matter what the topic always ended up as a discussion about the Stride murder. So much so I kinda gave up for a while. That was rather trying!

[Wickerman]

(For some reason the Quote function doesn't work at my end)

"The Coram knife was found on the sidewalk of Whitechapel Road almost 24 hours later at approximately 12:30 am on October 1st."

Yes Scott, it was Monday, of course.


[Note to self: Must resist posting whilst half asleep]