Only in the Rippersphere

[Tom_Wescott]

How many victims according to Dave Clark?

He pitches his tent in the Ben Folds and Jackson camp. I refuse to debate with any of them.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Wickerman]

The only person who really knows the true number is long dead, everyone else can only offer an opinion, that will never change.

[Fiver]

Hi Paul. The phrase is obnoxious because it's misleading and it's bad history. Macnaghten believed there were five victims and Fido believed it as well, therefore it's fact? I don't think so. I would suggest attributing that number to its primary source - Macnaghten, i.e. the Macnaghten Five. Adding Tabram you'd have the Anderson Six. The Arnold Four, Percy Clark Three, Reid Ten, Hawley Eighty-four, etc.

And I believe the Dew Seven. Plus many of the police did not say how many victims there were, IIRC, that includes Abberline, Littlechild, Monro, Swanson, Smith. And then there were the opinions of the doctors. Thomas Bond went with the C5 + Mackenzie. I'm not sure about the others.

[Geddy2112]

And I believe the Dew Seven. Plus many of the police did not say how many victims there were, IIRC, that includes Abberline, Littlechild, Monro, Swanson, Smith. And then there were the opinions of the doctors. Thomas Bond went with the C5 + Mackenzie. I'm not sure about the others.

...and the Holmgren and Stow 457

[Sam Flynn]

...and the Holmgren and Stow 457

Just as well the Ripper wasn't active in Pennsylvania, or they'd have pinned all 65000 on him

[PaulB]

Hi Paul. The phrase is obnoxious because it's misleading and it's bad history. Macnaghten believed there were five victims and Fido believed it as well, therefore it's fact? I don't think so. I would suggest attributing that number to its primary source - Macnaghten, i.e. the Macnaghten Five. Adding Tabram you'd have the Anderson Six. The Arnold Four, Percy Clark Three, Reid Ten, Hawley Eighty-four, etc. If there was a similar debate over the Holmes works authored by Doyle, I'm not aware of it.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

I don't know that Martin believed there were only the Macnaghten five victims. He searched for and suggested some other might-have-been victims. But from 1888 until the 1960s or later, in most writings about the Ripper those five were almost exclusively discussed in any detail. Martin was simply casting around for shorthand to distinguish those five from other possibilities. It became accepted.

[Paddy Goose]

cachous

[Fiver]

And I believe the Dew Seven. Plus many of the police did not say how many victims there were, IIRC, that includes Abberline, Littlechild, Monro, Swanson, Smith. And then there were the opinions of the doctors. Thomas Bond went with the C5 + Mackenzie. I'm not sure about the others.

Dr. Frederick Gordon Brown believed that at least one, probably two Ripper murders were committed after the death of Druitt. I'm not sure if the Brown Nine were the same as the Reid Nine.

[Geddy2112]

cachous

Yeah that's a good one for sure...

[Tom_Wescott]

And I believe the Dew Seven. Plus many of the police did not say how many victims there were, IIRC, that includes Abberline, Littlechild, Monro, Swanson, Smith. And then there were the opinions of the doctors. Thomas Bond went with the C5 + Mackenzie. I'm not sure about the others.

I don't recall that Bond excluded Tabram. He was simply asked by Anderson to offer opinions on Nichols through Kelly. If anyone can point me towards Bond commenting on Tabram (if he did) I'd love to see it. I likewise am not aware of him offering an opinion on Coles.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Tom_Wescott]

As an American, there were probably more words and terms I was introduced to for the first time in Ripperology than you Brits as we simply never had them over here. Ironically, one of them was 'American cloth' (George Hutchinson). I found out at some point this is what we call oilcloth here. I wonder what you all call 'English muffins'? Here's hoping it's not oilmuffins.

Paddy mentioned 'cachous' and that is a good one! It's funny as I've now been using that word for half my life and I'd forgotten (at least initially) how alien it was to me at one point. There are still words that throw me and I have to PM someone to ask. In Ripper Confidential, I refer to a 'wicker gate' re: Dutfield's Yard when apparently it's 'wicker' gate. Those who mentioned it after the book came out assumed it was a typo. It was not. I intentionally (but wrongly!) wrote 'wicker'.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Fiver]

I don't recall that Bond excluded Tabram. He was simply asked by Anderson to offer opinions on Nichols through Kelly. If anyone can point me towards Bond commenting on Tabram (if he did) I'd love to see it. I likewise am not aware of him offering an opinion on Coles.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Apologies for being unclear. Bond thought the C5 + Mackenzie were definitely Ripper victims. I am unaware of him excluding or including anyone else, except for excluding Rose Mylett, so Bond Six would be the minimum.

[Indian Harry]

Bagster... mic drop

[Tom_Wescott]

Apologies for being unclear. Bond thought the C5 + Mackenzie were definitely Ripper victims. I am unaware of him excluding or including anyone else, so Bond Six would be the minimum.

Thanks. I wouldn't be surprised if there were some Bond comments on other victims of which I'm not yet aware, so I thought I'd ask. Of course, we know where he ended up with regarding Mylett. I was surprised not to see him join the Great Ripper Hunt of 1891. A virtual Who's Who gathered in Swallow Gardens in those early hours of February 13th. Shame Bond wasn't among them. Or, perhaps he was, but his report hasn't survived.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Herlock Sholmes]

That's interesting. Paul B, I take it that you're Paul Begg? If so, it's good to see you posting in this forum. Even if you aren't, welcome! (Though I see that you posted here long before I did.)

He is.