Evidence of Jack The Ripper's existence

[c.d.]

Hello CD. Thanks.

Please feel free to suggest an alternative to the word. Frankly, I am not a fan myself.

As I believe in ONE true such case, I'm afraid I don't see your problem.

And the police? Well, why was Phillips sent to Birtley Fell? And what was the standard ripper student take on McKenzie and Coles for many years?

Cheers.
LC

Hello Lynn,

If we limit ourselves to just the C5 murders they all occurred in a relatively short period of time. If there were copy cats active during that time, then they also stopped right after the murder of Mary Kelly.

c.d.

[SirJohnFalstaff]

The term copy cat seems to get thrown around rather loosely as if it were the most natural thing in the world. But we need to keep in mind that we are not talking about copying a particular item of clothing or hairstyle. If we accept the existence of copy cats then we have to assume that there were several people in Whitechapel who had no problem with the idea of slitting another human being's throat and taking out their internal organs and were simply laying dormant until the idea was suggested to them. That seems a bit farfetched to me.

c.d.

I think if you take in account the torsos found, and the actual death rates of Whitechapel, you will find that there are possibilities, in my opinion.

What happened is the sensasionalisation by the press, and this started with Tabram, who is not part of the C5.


Anyway, my point is, how far fetched would it be to write a fiction about 5 different killers? I include Tabram in the story, and Stride and Eddowes are killed by the same man. These 5 men are working together.

Like I already said, it's not a theory, it's a fiction, told from the five men POV.

[c.d.]

Hello Sir John,

If you are going to write fiction then go for it. You are certainly under no requirement to make it conform to known facts. Throw in Queen Victoria as well. After all it is fiction.

c.d.

[GUT]

Some of the non-fiction books [so called] would have been great works of fiction.

Good luck with yours Sir John.

[lynn cates]

stopping the killings

Hello CD. Thanks.

Since I am claiming ONLY Kate as a true "imitation," let's singularise.

I will ask you a question, and, I daresay your answer will express my opinion.

After John Wilkes Booth killed Lincoln, why did he stop?

Cheers.
LC

[c.d.]

Hello Lynn,

I sense a trap here but I will answer anyway. I would say that it was because Booth was only interested in killing Lincoln and no one else.

I think there may be some confusion because as I see it the term copy cat has two meanings. It could mean someone who reads of the killings and thinks hey I would like to do that too. It could also mean someone who commits a crime hoping that some other individual will be blamed for it. The problem with the latter is that the police didn't know who the Whitechapel murderer was. Now if the police had determined that the WM was Joe Smith but had failed to catch him then another killer could copy what Smith had done in the hopes that the police would blame it on Smith and not him. If Kate's killer acted on that premise he would be making a huge mistake because at that point the police didn't know who the WM was and he himself could be caught and tried as the WM.

Am I getting your drift?

c.d.

[Wickerman]

Hi Lynn.

Hello Tom. Thanks.

"It is possible they look exactly like the murders of a sexual serial killer and we're not."

Agreed. Of course that's IF they look exactly like them. I think they do not.

Cheers.
LC

I'll second that, though I acknowledge the prevalent opinion has always been these were sex crimes. If the killer had only removed a finger then the motive would have been seen differently.

I fail to see the rationale of a killer looking for sexual gratification by killing in a public place where he cannot spend any appreciable time with his victim.
With the exception of Kelly, what we have is Jack-Flash, in and out in seconds flat.
The very fact his victims were merely female could be viewed as suggestive of a sexual motive, but that is a weak argument.
Women were just easy targets, 'unfortunates' being the easiest of all.

[lynn cates]

exactly

Hello CD. Thanks.

"Am I getting your drift?"

Even better than I had hoped.

"I sense a trap here but I will answer anyway."

No trap at all. Just common or garden items.

"I would say that it was because Booth was only interested in killing Lincoln and no one else."

100% correct. See? Simple.

"I think there may be some confusion because as I see it the term copy cat has two meanings."

Yes, indeed. That is why I stated I would be delighted to change the terms.

"It could mean someone who reads of the killings and thinks hey I would like to do that too. It could also mean someone who commits a crime hoping that some other individual will be blamed for it."

I mean the latter.

"The problem with the latter is that the police didn't know who the Whitechapel murderer was. Now if the police had determined that the WM was Joe Smith but had failed to catch him then another killer could copy what Smith had done in the hopes that the police would blame it on Smith and not him. If Kate's killer acted on that premise he would be making a huge mistake because at that point the police didn't know who the WM was and he himself could be caught and tried as the WM."

CD, I say most sincerely, THIS IS THE MOST UTTERLY PROFOUND POST I HAVE EVER SEEN FROM YOU. But the reason is slightly different.

I believe that, if the perpetrator killed Kate whilst the REAL WC murderer were at large, he might be caught and acknowledge ALL the killings save Kate. This would render his plan ineffective.

No, the killer of Kate had to be ABSOLUTELY certain of:

1. the identity of Polly and Annie's killer.

2. that he was safely caged.

And I believe he waited until Annie's inquest was over to act.

Your reply made my day and I'd be MORE than happy to further discuss this.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

van Helsing

Hello Jon. Thanks.

In light of your remarkably intelligent post I can say only (with regards to the Count):

"For one who has not lived even a single lifetime, you're a wise man, van Helsing."

Cheers.
LC

[c.d.]

Hello Lynn,

You flatter me with your words, Sir. I know that I have had a lot of profound posts over the years but "most utterly profound" is indeed a compliment.

As for the rest of your post, I have to assume that Kate's killer did know who killed Polly and Annie. So, please spill the beans on this one.

Glad I was able to make your day. It will be hard to top that last post but I shall keep trying.

c.d.

[Observer]

Hello Lynn,

You flatter me with your words, Sir. I know that I have had a lot of profound posts over the years but "most utterly profound" is indeed a compliment.

As for the rest of your post, I have to assume that Kate's killer did know who killed Polly and Annie. So, please spill the beans on this one.

Glad I was able to make your day. It will be hard to top that last post but I shall keep trying.

c.d.

Sorry to intrude c.d. but I think Mr Cates alludes to the possibility that Kate Eddowes was a cut above old Isenschmid who allegedly shook down only lowely prostitutes. By the look of it, Mr Cates appears to imply that Eddowes attempted to shake down down members of her Majesty's Secret Service, and paid the ultimate price for doing so! It is they I suspect who informed Eddowes killer that Isenschmid murdered Nichols, and Chapman. And if that's not a conspiracy theory then I don't know what is. Mr Cates of course maintains he is not a conspiracy theorist.

So, if I interpret Mr Cates theory correctly, Isenschmid was released back into the general populace even though certain members of the establishment knew very well that he was a brutal killer, and mutilator, of two innocent prostitutes.

Regards

Observer

[Observer]

Hi Lynn.


I'll second that, though I acknowledge the prevalent opinion has always been these were sex crimes. If the killer had only removed a finger then the motive would have been seen differently.

I fail to see the rationale of a killer looking for sexual gratification by killing in a public place where he cannot spend any appreciable time with his victim.
With the exception of Kelly, what we have is Jack-Flash, in and out in seconds flat.
The very fact his victims were merely female could be viewed as suggestive of a sexual motive, but that is a weak argument.
Women were just easy targets, 'unfortunates' being the easiest of all.

You surprise me Wick. How long do you suppose Sutcliffe spent with his victims? There is not a shadow of doubt that Sutcliffes crimes were sexual in motive.

[lynn cates]

sincere

Hello CD. Thanks.

My praise was most sincere. You saw something that few have seen. Yes, whoever killed Kate must have been convinced--or nearly so--of Isenschmid's guilt. And he must also have thought he would be caged permanently--no thought of being let out a year later.

I'm sure you have seen the recent research on Charles Hammond on another site? He ran the brothel at Cleveland st and was said to be violent. Research is ongoing.

Cheers.
LC

[Observer]

Hahaha. Bleedin Hell how wrong was I ? I give up!!! Where on earth does this drivel come from. Sir John, I hope you are taking notes.

[Wickerman]

You surprise me Wick. How long do you suppose Sutcliffe spent with his victims? There is not a shadow of doubt that Sutcliffes crimes were sexual in motive.

Although I still maintain that Sutcliffe is the best example we have of a modern-day "Ripper", I still see a slight difference between those killings and the Whitechapel Murders.

Extreme Violence.

What becomes apparent when reading the details about the Yorkshire Ripper murders is the killer's need to be physically violent. The swinging of the hammer - repeatedly. The violent stabbing - repeatedly, and kicking the body.
I see no evidence of a similar expression of anger in the Whitechapel Murders, except with Tabram, which I have not accepted as a Ripper murder anyway.

There is no question Sutcliffe was motivated by sex, I don't think the cause is so clearly evident in Whitechapel.