Just What Do People Expect From a Jack the Ripper Exhibition?

[Monty]

Depends what they stock John. The crap or the decent stuff.

Id say the decent stuff makes up 10%. Thats all.

Monty

[John Bennett]

Depends what they stock John. The crap or the decent stuff.

Id say the decent stuff makes up 10%. Thats all.

Monty

Fair point. But do they know what's what? And even if they don't, surely a small range would be better than one thing.

This issue (exhibition, that is) is becoming too complicated. 'Too many snags' (to quote David Bowie/Mott the Hoople)

[George Hutchinson]

Chris - they could have arranged sale or return on the books, so although your suggestion makes sense and they may well use this as an excuse, it doesn't get them off the hook. I'm delighted, of course, that they have Rob's and mine's effort but I guess that might have the extra helping hand of including the history of specific East End topography. I'm still a bit bewildered they don't have it in The Museum Of London.

Can anyone tell me if they have many of Bill Fishman's books at Docklands, or copies of things like THE PEOPLE OF THE ABYSS, CHILDREN OF THE GHETTO or CHILD OF THE JAGO?

PHILIP

[Monty]

Fair point. But do they know what's what? And even if they don't, surely a small range would be better than one thing.

Absolutely John.

All they had to do was have a quick look around this site.

Neals work isnt only an excellent research tool, its also a story of the victims lives. And some of those lives were lived out in the East End.

Rob and Philips book is ideal for this exhibition, as they show the areas 'physical' transformation. And its a shame your work wasnt due out in time, else that would also have been perfect.

There, a small selection, just of the top of my head. Instead, they would rather promote their own work (under the guise of a prominant author who merely did the intro) which is understandable though rather blinkered.

And thats been another gripe (apart from the lack of communication made, or rather not made, with people who, when it comes to the East end, Jack and his unfortunate victims, know exactly what they are on about), the fact people who have made an impact, such as Robs, Phils, Jakes and you own tireless research into the area have been, because they are either not a 'name' or do not hold a series of letters behind that name, largely overlooked or ignored.

It may have improved what most people agree is a decent exhibition.

Monty

[Jenni Shelden]

Hiya

Philip and Robs book was there i think and the Abyss, Fishman i am not sure on but have a feeling it was there.


I know the abyss book was there as i had to refrain from buying the sai d book as it was before my birthday

Jenni

[Sox]

I found the miniscule descriptions of the victims to be ridiculous to be honest, and I wanted to like this exhibition so much. To even begin to understand these crimes then you really need to know about the time in which they were commited, and more importantly, the people of those times.

I know that many of you here have published works on the subject of these crimes, I have always binned works like 'Autumn of Terror' because when writers resort to using the word 'whore' to describe these women - I stop reading. The exhibition did nothing to break that tradition to be honest.

[George Hutchinson]

Jenni - The People Of The Abyss will be a window so wide into the LVP you will come out of the other side thinking you have actually been at Jack London's side. Maybe it was the plethora of images alongside the text that helped, but I was so 'there' throughout that I saw and smelt what London was describing. It is, to my mind, as close to a time machine as you will ever find for the Victorian East End. I couldn't put it down.

PHILIP

[caz]

Caz - it was exactly ten years ago that I was working as one of the actors at the London Dungeon. I wonder...?

Would it have been your daughter's actual birthday you went there? If so, I was keeping a diary then and I'd be able to find out if I was working there that day.

PHILIP

Hi Philip,

Goodness, I can’t remember that far back. But if it’s any help, I imagine we would have gone on a Sunday because it would have been in term time. The nearest Sunday to September 26th 1998 seems like the best bet, but I can’t be certain. I do remember one of the actors creeping up behind us and giving us a shock, but it wasn't because he was wearing shorts.

I am not defending the decision of the Docklands Museum not to carry Ripper titles other than the exhibition book introduced by Peter Ackroyd. Just trying to see the situation from their point of view.

Depends what they stock John. The crap or the decent stuff.

Id say the decent stuff makes up 10%. Thats all.

Monty

Hi Chris, Monty,

But they did have several other Ripper titles when I was there - decent ones too, like Philip and Rob’s, which goes into a fair bit of detail about each of the victims. I’m sure Letters From Hell was there, and The Facts, among others. If there were any crap ones, including suspect-based titles, they could not have been very prominent on the shelves because I didn't notice them.

Hubby bought himself the Ackroyd (to add to his large collection of London books) and I treated myself to a Penguin Red Classic 2006 edition of Dr Jekyll & Mr Hyde because believe it or not I didn’t already have a copy.

I'm delighted, of course, that they have Rob's and mine's effort but I guess that might have the extra helping hand of including the history of specific East End topography. I'm still a bit bewildered they don't have it in The Museum Of London.

Can anyone tell me if they have many of Bill Fishman's books at Docklands, or copies of things like THE PEOPLE OF THE ABYSS, CHILDREN OF THE GHETTO or CHILD OF THE JAGO?

PHILIP

I must admit that I didn’t notice any of these, but I didn’t get much time to browse the non-ripper shelves because hubby had paid for our purchases by then and was twitching for his first pint.

While the Museum of London should of course boast a copy of your book, the only reason it has a copy of Ripper Diary is because I gave one to Julia at Wolvers and she said she would donate it to the museum library after reading it.

Love,

Caz
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[caz]

Scrub that last bit, Philip. I've just realised that you meant copies of your book are not stocked at the Museum of London. My mistake.

[ChrisGeorge]

Hi Chris, Monty,

But they did have several other Ripper titles when I was there - decent ones too, like Philip and Rob’s, which goes into a fair bit of detail about each of the victims. I’m sure Letters From Hell was there, and The Facts, among others. If there were any crap ones, including suspect-based titles, they could not have been very prominent on the shelves because I didn't notice them.

Hubby bought himself the Ackroyd (to add to his large collection of London books) and I treated myself to a Penguin Red Classic 2006 edition of Dr Jekyll & Mr Hyde because believe it or not I didn’t already have a copy.

Thanks, Caz, since I wrote my earlier post I have been informed by a reliable source that they do have several Ripper titles besides the Ackroyd introduced companion volume to the exhibition. That's good to know.

Chris

[caz]

Oh good, Chris. I'm so glad you got the same info from a reliable source.

Thanks for nothing.

Love,

Caz
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[Suzi]

I found the miniscule descriptions of the victims to be ridiculous to be honest, and I wanted to like this exhibition so much. To even begin to understand these crimes then you really need to know about the time in which they were commited, and more importantly, the people of those times.

I know that many of you here have published works on the subject of these crimes, I have always binned works like 'Autumn of Terror' because when writers resort to using the word 'whore' to describe these women - I stop reading. The exhibition did nothing to break that tradition to be honest.

Hi Sox-Binned!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??

Firstly for all it's 'foibles' I think that Autumn of Terror is still a good enough read and even highly entertaining in parts (if OK, you ignore the rather 1945 ish use of the word 'whore').

I haven't made it to THE exhibition yet but I would have thought that, shall we say, a well rounded selection of all generally accepted Ripper tomes ...and of course TLOJTRTAN which I've just finished,Richard Jones and Neal's would be a first step for someone 'furnishing' a bookshop.IMHO!

It appears that the promotion of the exhibition BOOK is their main priority-fine as I'm sure it is...

Mind you ,it's true that at London theatres when maybe you may just want to buy the script/score or something even vaguely relevant to the play or whatever....oddly that's missing....but you can get a restaurant guide to Manchester or something equally useful!!

Rant rant-but true-sadly!

Suzi xx

[Natalie Severn]

Hi Suzi,
I agree with Sox.The word "whore" has been used as a derogatory and insulting term from time immemorial.One has only to think of how upsetting it would be if ones own mother were referred to as a "whore" -before or after death-----but for these destitute and homeless women to be referred as "whores"---as though as "whores" they somehow "deserved what they got" is actually quite offensive and crude.
And besides,Dids would have hated Mrs Prater to have been referred to as a "whore" and you damn well know it!
[but I wouldnt actually "bin it" even so----as that smacks too much of censorship in my opinion.

[Limehouse]

To me, the word whore carries a whole lot of negative connotations about these women without saying anything at all about the men who paid them for sex. It's a biblical term that has no place in a historical account of the Ripper murders. If such books are still in print, the word should be edited.

[Suzi]

Hi Nats and Limehouse-

Yes, I know that the word is despicable and derogatory* -I don't dispute that at all -and as you say Nats- Dids would have turned up a whisker or five at that one!.........Seriously though it was maybe a word of the time (NOT a good one I agree) but it doesn't put me off of the book and I just don't believe in throwing books away....no matter how naff they may be.....that could of course explain the state of our house and the multiplicity of bookcases!!!! (Is that a collective noun? ! hehe)

Suzi xx
* Could be a lot worse though....Harlot/Slattern etc etc etc or shall we just stick with the euphenisms such as 'unfortunates' or even worse 'laundresses'...in a way they're sadder aren't they...At the end of the day a hell of a lot of these 'unfortunates' resorted to prostituting themselves when all else failed for the price of a bed...and as we all know no matter how jolly the bonnet sometimes even that didn't work!
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