Just What Do People Expect From a Jack the Ripper Exhibition?

[Neal Shelden]

Nats, this is seriously out of order.

*Go and see the exhibition!*

If you still think there is nothing about why 'these women' (and NOT just the few who didn't survive Jack's knife to 'enjoy' the rest of their perfectly lovely, happy, healthy, unexploited lives ) were 'so vulnerable', then by all means come back and have a grumble about it (after you have put it all in writing to the organisers so they are suitably educated for the future).

One of the 'talking heads', for example, gives an important insight into the vulnerability of East End sex workers in modern times, and what measures are in place to offer advice and support. She illustrates how little has really changed since 1888, except for the chemicals the women end up hooked on, so they need to keep selling themselves in dark corners and dingy rooms to whoever is waiting in the wings to become the next Jack the Ripper.

Did you listen to this lady, Neal? I'm afraid I didn't catch her name but she did seem to talk a lot of sense. She also said that statistics show that the vast majority of men who regularly use sex workers today come into the area from outside and treat it like just another affordable leisure activity, paying cheaply for casual sex once or twice a week. I don't know how that compares with the punters of 1888, but no doubt Ben will pop in to tell me soon enough.

Did you and Jenni enjoy the display of 1880s bonnets, with Polly's own words about her new jolly one? The caption suggests that women in Polly's circumstances, whose other clothes were often little more than rags, tended to be proud of their bonnets, which they often decorated cheaply and cheerfully with ribbon or other bits and bobs.

Today's ladies don't tend to wear hats to make them feel a little jollier. But you do see plenty of high-heeled white shoes and boots. Have you asked if there are any family objections to Annie's photo being on display? Maybe there is yet time to persuade people that she be allowed to stand up and be counted?

Love,

Caz
X

It's still avoiding the point, and the point being that these are the most famous murders that ever happened, it is not wrong to put information into the exhibition about social conditions and conditions of prostitution, but it shouldn't be either or, but have that in the exhibition and a reasonable account of these victims lives and the Annie photo.
Yes I saw the bonnets. No I haven't asked the Chapman descendant for the photograph because I was never formally asked by the exhibtion to make an enquiry.

[Stewart P Evans]

Wolverhampton

It's still avoiding the point, and the point being that these are the most famous murders that ever happened, it is not wrong to put information into the exhibition about social conditions and conditions of prostitution, but it shouldn't be either or, but have that in the exhibition and a reasonable account of these victims lives and the Annie photo.
Yes I saw the bonnets. No I haven't asked the Chapman descendant for the photograph because I was never formally asked by the exhibtion to make an enquiry.

Neal, Julia Hoffbrand was at the Wolverhampton conference discussing items for display at the exhibition. Did you not suggest the photograph as an exhibit and discuss the input on the victims with her?

[Neal Shelden]

Neal, Julia Hoffbrand was at the Wolverhampton conference discussing items for display at the exhibition. Did you not suggest the photograph as an exhibit and discuss the input on the victims with her?

Yeah Stuart, and she seemed very enthusiastic but apparently gave this impression to many others at the conference about other subjects. She even made me think back then that she might want me to do a talk during the time of the exhibition. It wasn't only the Chapman photograph that she made me think could be used because I remember talking to her about the Alice Esther Nichols family photograph too.

But I hadn't been contacted since October to be asked to make any enquiries to the families.

[Jeff Leahy]

Yeah Stuart, and she seemed very enthusiastic but apparently gave this impression to many others at the conference about other subjects. She even made me think back then that she might want me to do a talk during the time of the exhibition. It wasn't only the Chapman photograph that she made me think could be used because I remember talking to her about the Alice Esther Nichols family photograph too.

But I hadn't been contacted since October to be asked to make any enquiries to the families.

Neal I have every simpathy with your position..however it is unlikely that Julia had the final say, possible any real power..and like it or not academics are still disdainful of Ripperologists..even the word..

Of course it will be pionted out I cant substanciate that claim (which is True) but its bloody brilliant to hear someone with passion and knowledge arguing there corner...I ow you a beer

Jeff xx

Thats another Xmas card list I've been crossed off this week

where are the water wings when you need them?

[Neal Shelden]

Neal I have every simpathy with your position..however it is unlikely that Julia had the final say, possible any real power..and like it or not academics are still disdainful of Ripperologists..even the word..

Of course it will be pionted out I cant substanciate that claim (which is True) but its bloody brilliant to hear someone with passion and knowledge arguing there corner...I ow you a beer

Jeff xx

Thats another Xmas card list I've been crossed off this week

where are the water wings when you need them?

Buy me two beers mate and your back on the list

[George Hutchinson]

Neal - Julia gave me her card at Wolvers and it was left up to me to contact HER. She was indeed keen and I believe it was genuine.

Working for a museum myself (as one of my jobs), I know that there are people above Curator level who see everything through eyes of avarice and budgets, and have no understanding of what makes a good exhibition. They have the final say. Having had conversations with someone who used to work for Julia, it's been confirmed that she is totally straight and correct but, like most museums, many good ideas are scuppered by the bastards in the ivory towers. The very same people who then grumble about targets not being met when it's really down to them themselves!

Suspicion is still largely down to terminology. If you said you were a Ripperologist, people would think of the cranks we deal with on the fringes. If you said you were a crime historian with a specialism in The Whitechapel Murders... well, it all sounds very respectable, doesn't it?

PHILIP

[Stewart P Evans]

All of which...

Yeah Stuart, and she seemed very enthusiastic but apparently gave this impression to many others at the conference about other subjects. She even made me think back then that she might want me to do a talk during the time of the exhibition. It wasn't only the Chapman photograph that she made me think could be used because I remember talking to her about the Alice Esther Nichols family photograph too.

But I hadn't been contacted since October to be asked to make any enquiries to the families.

All of which makes me think that perhaps you should be approaching those in authority at the exhibition with these complaints. It is fine to voice the criticisms here but there is no one here who can really provide an answer to your objections. I certainly was not one of the advisers on this exhibition and I had no idea of what it would be like until I went there. Personally I think that a talk by your good self on the victims would have been both relevant and very interesting - more so than people having to listen to me go over my thoughts on who Jack the Ripper was all over again. Perhaps a victim themed talks event would have been a good idea. But I honestly don't have a clue as to what criteria were used in the planning of the talks and, to a lesser degree, the exhibits.

[Monty]

Neal - Julia gave me her card at Wolvers and it was left up to me to contact HER. She was indeed keen and I believe it was genuine.

Working for a museum myself (as one of my jobs), I know that there are people above Curator level who see everything through eyes of avarice and budgets, and have no understanding of what makes a good exhibition. They have the final say. Having had conversations with someone who used to work for Julia, it's been confirmed that she is totally straight and correct but, like most museums, many good ideas are scuppered by the bastards in the ivory towers. The very same people who then grumble about targets not being met when it's really down to them themselves!

PHILIP

Philip,

Thats exactly what happend to Jake.

I can understand how it happens but the thing that grates with me (and speaking to Jake, with him also) was the fact that he was led to believe they were interested in his work until weeks before the website launch. This without informing him of the full picture.

Now Ive no reason to disbelieve that Julia was genuine in her interest in Jakes stuff, and Im aware money was the final decisive factor, but if they told him the facts from the word go he would have understood and could have catered his other work, bread and butter work, around that.

Instead, Jake was told "yeah, were are interested" for months, (though I must point out it was Jake who did the asking, no one from Docklands updated him off their own bat) right up till Feb/March time. Then someone, higher up than Julia, told him "well, actually, budget contraints mean its a no go Im afraid". This after Jake had done his groundwork.

Its that lack of communication, and correct communication at that. And now we are deprived of a few outstanding images as well as Neals photos.

However, Im tired of knocking this exhibition. Its time I said something postive and that is that I, personally, have been wanting to see something like this for many, many years. Its not my ideal 'exhibition' but at least somebody has done something. And by all accounts it not that bad.

Im grateful for that.

Monty

[Jenni Shelden]

Hiya,

yeah - it is true that none of us know what the criteria was. That's why no one is having a go at anyo of us. Im not even having a go at the exibiton, althoghu i do agree wit hneal that it was a 1980s exibition and there could have been more done condisering where we are. i suppose its better than nothing,. In places its even prettuy interesting but anyway

Thats all i have to say about that for now

Jenni

[Neal Shelden]

Approaching the powers that be would probably be something to try, but I do get the feeling it would only be passed down to the curators again. I don't really see why budgets would have been affected by the photograph of Annie and a few words about the victims though.
I can understand that perhaps me doing a talk might not have interested enough of the public to walk in and see it, but really all I was asking for was the Annie photograph's inclusion and some paragraphs on the walls about the victims rather than just info handouts as I am told it may now me.
I am intending on a summer event with descendants of one of the victims which I thought might be good to base at the Museum but not now, I'll take that event where it will be more appreciated.

[Chris George]

Neal - Julia gave me her card at Wolvers and it was left up to me to contact HER. She was indeed keen and I believe it was genuine.

Working for a museum myself (as one of my jobs), I know that there are people above Curator level who see everything through eyes of avarice and budgets, and have no understanding of what makes a good exhibition. They have the final say. Having had conversations with someone who used to work for Julia, it's been confirmed that she is totally straight and correct but, like most museums, many good ideas are scuppered by the bastards in the ivory towers. The very same people who then grumble about targets not being met when it's really down to them themselves!

Suspicion is still largely down to terminology. If you said you were a Ripperologist, people would think of the cranks we deal with on the fringes. If you said you were a crime historian with a specialism in The Whitechapel Murders... well, it all sounds very respectable, doesn't it?

PHILIP

Hi Philip

I agree with this assessment on the way museums are run. As you might know my other main sphere of interest as a researcher is the War of 1812. The museum of the Maryland Historical Society had a very nice room on the War of 1812 with a lot of artifacts and information, including one of the original manuscripts of "The Star-Spangled Banner", a painting of the Battle of North Point and another of the defenses at Patterson Park (Hampstead Hill), Batlimore, built to defend against the British, but in a newly designed museum all that went to the wall, along with a specific exhibition on the Civil War in Maryland, in favor of a "timeline" type exhibit which could only accomodate a few artifacts from each period of Maryland history, a most regrettable decision.

Chris

[Chris George]

Approaching the powers that be would probably be something to try, but I do get the feeling it would only be passed down to the curators again. I don't really see why budgets would have been affected by the photograph of Annie and a few words about the victims though.
I can understand that perhaps me doing a talk might not have interested enough of the public to walk in and see it, but really all I was asking for was the Annie photograph's inclusion and some paragraphs on the walls about the victims rather than just info handouts as I am told it may now me.
I am intending on a summer event with descendants of one of the victims which I thought might be good to base at the Museum but not now, I'll take that event where it will be more appreciated.

Hi Neal

Since the exhibition has only just started, I should think there might be a chance that they could accomodate a talk by you on the victims. If you need any help in lobbying the powers that be, in terms of a letters campaign, etc., let us know.

Chris

[Neal Shelden]

Hi Neal

Since the exhibition has only just started, I should think there might be a chance that they could accomodate a talk by you on the victims. If you need any help in lobbying the powers that be, in terms of a letters campaign, etc., let us know.

Chris

Julia phoned me up again today just to tell me that their book shop will not be able to accomodate my book, but a copy will be placed in their library.
I've decided to give up the fight as I don't believe in flogging a dead horse, and I'm just going to avoid the exhibition like the plague as I don't consider it to be credible.
I have a couple ideas for the summer, one of which I did think about for the exhibition but as they are not interested in my imput I am going to take it elsewhere.

All the best

[Tom_Wescott]

Neal,

I admit it's very curious that your Chapman photo wasn't put up and that they don't want to carry your book, which would be PERFECT for such an exhibit. I'm sorry you've been soured by the experience.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[coral]

Hi Neal

I know exactly how you feel. Julia spent a lot of time with members of the Whitechapel Society at the Wolverhampton conference - giving us a lot of 'promises'.

Not only have we been completely ignored since then but they will not even let us leave our flyers at the exhibition.

Please keep me informed of your venture for the summer. You will be well supported by our members.

Coral