Jack the Ripper case breakthrough; the when and how

[robhouse]

Hi Pat,

I would guess that those files are also missing. From what I understand, many of the files from the Learning Disability Hospitals, like Leavesden, were destroyed at some point... or discarded, etc. I could look into my records and try to give you a better answer, but I never really found out anything definitive. I think Chris has a better grasp on what still exists at the LMA anyway. This "new" batch of files in London includes something like 15,000 patient records from Harperbury, Leavesden and Cell Barnes. But like I said, from what I have been told, the files are from a later period. Kozminski was at Leavesden from 1894-1919, and the case register that would have contained his case notes, photo, and documentation is missing.

Rob

[Paddy]

Leavesden Records Quick question

Hi Rob hope you are not having too much snow over there? They just said on TV that New York is -9 and snowing heavily. Hope we dont get it next !

I had an Aunt who never married. She was learning disabled (I think)
She was in Leavesden from 1906 ish till she died there in 1916.
Would I be able to see her records or would they be missing too?

Pat..................................

[GUT]

The big question though, in my mind, is:

Even if a discovery was made that blew the whole case wide open 90% of those here would reject it if it didn't fit their pet theory.

[GUT]

Personally I have no doubt there is material out there. Why would we think that some of the more recent discoveries are the end of the line.

[Digalittledeeperwatson]

Hullo Alex One.

Are there things out there? I should say definitely yes. Where they reside are probably in private collections. Crude example: Some months ago whilst discussing the case on Casebook here, there was talk of a possible connection between Goldstein and Arbeter Fraint guy, name escapes me for some reason. Anyways, poster and class act Mr. Lynn Cates produced something that could help support that notion. A personal effect of one of the men. Private collection. I would not be surprised if the actual case files, or some portion of them, resides in private collection(s). My opinion being, if we had everything that still exists on the case at our desposal, we would be a hell of a lot closer to some definitive, factual answers. If we had everything that ever existed I think we could solve it. Maybe not completely prove it, but know by balance of probability. Or not.

[robhouse]

Rob,
That's extremely interesting. Can I ask, have those asylum records definitely been destroyed or is there still a faint hope they could show up?

There is no real proof that the files have been destroyed, but I have heard enough anecdotal evidence to conclude that they probably have been. That said, I happen to know that there is a huge collection of asylum records held in storage in London, that no one (to my knowledge) has had direct access to. But I have been assured that Kozminski's case register/admission entries are not there. These files, however, do include files from Leavesden and 2 other asylums, but it seems they are mostly from a later period (20th century... 1950s etc). However, the files do (or did) contain files related to Aaron Kozminski that have not been seen publicly before, but these do not contain any information that we didn't have already. Still... they are not accessible by the public at the present time...

And, incidentally, they may actually be destroyed anyway.

Rob H.

[lynn cates]

Yiddish

Hello Alex. Thanks.

There is some Yiddish material in a paper. Some has been translated. A few things about the JTR killings. Much is still untranslated.

Cheers.
LC

[AndrewL]

Rob,
That's extremely interesting. Can I ask, have those asylum records definitely been destroyed or is there still a faint hope they could show up?
For my part, I agree that there may still be some relevant material out there - but I would also point out that arguably the last really major discovery was the Littlechild letter and sadly that is over 20 years ago now.

[Alex One]

Hello Lynn. Thanks for the welcome
What sort of material is out there that needs to be translated? From what language? And what is it about if you don't mind.

[lynn cates]

material

Hello Alex. Welcome to the boards.

Yes, there is still material out there. Some of it needs to be translated into English.

Cheers.
LC

[robhouse]

My question is – do you think that there is any possibility that any crucial information will get out sooner or later that maybe will help us elucidate if not the case, maybe some aspects of it?

Yes, it is entirely possible. I am convinced that there is more information out there, that has not been uncovered yet. People who research the case are constantly finding new things, although most of the time what is discovered is not hugely important. But sometimes, exciting new discoveries come to light.

I will give just one example:

A few months back, I thought I was on the verge of a huge discovery, specifically, I thought I might be about to discover Aaron Kozminski's "lost" Leavesden asylum records, the records from 1894-1910. Given that Kozminski is such an important suspect, a find like this could be huge. His asylum record probably contained a photo of him. We are talking about 16 years of records... who knows what information could be found there. If he even once mentioned anything about the Ripper case, it could be decisive. For example: "patient babbling incoherently, thinks he was Jack the Ripper." etc.

Unfortunately, the hoped for discovery didn't happen. But the records certainly did exist at one point. A find like this is still possible, and could—in theory—"solve" the case, for want of a better term.

Rob House

[Alex One]

Hello, this is my first post here on these forums as you can tell.

After browsing and reading a part of the material posted here, I started wondering if there is any possibility in the future that any (crucial) detail will surface out somehow.

Like a huge excavation of some area around/ inside what used to be East End, that reveals some hidden evidence; maybe a person will come out with a missing piece of the puzzle if he happends to randomly find it through some old family papers; maybe some bodies that were involed in the case (be it as witness, victim or suspect) will get digged up in the intention to move them to a new place and we find some missing links in their coffins, bodies; maybe from some deathbed declarations, passed on to their relatives; maybe JTR lived untill his 90s and there is still someone alive who knew about him and his secret identity.

My question is – do you think that there is any possibility that any crucial information will get out sooner or later that maybe will help us elucidate if not the case, maybe some aspects of it?

Or do you think that all the information we gathered along the years and use at the moment, is the most we will ever have on this case, and people will still debate on this topic in hundreds of years with what we have now? (or maybe less)
Thanks.