Attitudes towards Ripperology in the U.K.

[JTRSickert]

Good afternoon everyone,

I was kind of curious as how Ripperology is looked upon in the UK? Do most people over there consider a worth-while, intriguing, and distingushed area of study? Or, is it looked down upon as a morbid subject that the UK tries to distance itself from and consider Ripperologists to be "hacks?"

Also, is Ripperology more popular over there or here in the USA? just was wondering.

[MrBarnett]

Hi JTRS,

I would hazard a guess that 99.9999 something% of UK citizens are not even aware of ripperology as a subject/discipline. But probably a similar % are aware of the myth and could be seduced by a black-and-bloodstained paperback cover. So the future looks bright.

Regards,

MrB

[JTRSickert]

Hi Mr. barnett,

That's a shame. If more people were more interested and possessed a plethora of knowledge about the cae, it could perhaps lead to the discovery of further clues to which, even if it does not reveal the killer's identity, it could give us more information about the investigatio nand who seems like a more plausiable suspect.

[MrBarnett]

Hi JTRS,

I couldn't agree more. The real shame is that we didn't have the critical mass of Ripperologists that we have now 50 years ago. My maternal grandmother (long dead) was born in Breezers Hill in the 1890's. I often lie awake at night wondering what her take on things would have been. A recurring nightmare I have is of her saying, 'Of course we knew who he was, we just didn't like to say. He was one of ours.'

Chances are, though, having been born 3 years after Mary Kelly died, she probably knew less about it all than I do. But I so wish I could have had a chat with her about it.

Regards,

MrB

[JTRSickert]

Hi JTRS,

I couldn't agree more. The real shame is that we didn't have the critical mass of Ripperologists that we have now 50 years ago. My maternal grandmother (long dead) was born in Breezers Hill in the 1890's. I often lie awake at night wondering what her take on things would have been. A recurring nightmare I have is of her saying, 'Of course we knew who he was, we just didn't like to say. He was one of ours.'

Chances are, though, having been born 3 years after Mary Kelly died, she probably knew less about it all than I do. But I so wish I could have had a chat with her about it.

Regards,

MrB

That's a fascinating point Mr. barnett. The fact that she says he was "one of ours," seems to incline towards him being the "Unknown Local Man," or at least a non-celebrity suspect (Kosminski, Klosowski, "David Cohen, George hutchinson, etc.)

Also, I just noticed it says you're from Romford. Since Hutchinson said in his testimony that he had returned from Romford, I had a question: How far is Romford from London (more specifically, the East End)?

[Sam Flynn]

How far is Romford from London (more specifically, the East End)?

About 12-15 miles. 10, I guess, if we're talking "outskirts".

[JTRSickert]

About 12-15 miles. 10, I guess, if we're talking "outskirts".

Thanks, Sam. Much obliged.

Did Hutchinson say he walked from there or did he take a carriage?

[MrBarnett]

Hi JTRS,

Seems Sam beat me to it. He's quite right, naturally. Approx 14 miles I would say from Romford Market to Commercial Street.

The sad thing is I have walked it myself on a couple of occasions.

What I said above about granny was, of course, tongue in cheek. Unfortunately my interest in JTR only developed long after all 4 grandparents had long gone to the big knees-up in the sky. What I wouldn't give for a chat with her or even more her husband who was a little older and living in George Yard Buildings in 1890.

Regards,

MrB

[Paddy]

Grandparents

Being a Londoner myself, my education of Jack the Ripper came from my nan when I was about 9. She was quite a character ( saw her doing jitterbug with Wee Willy Harris when she was in her 80s)
She took great delight in telling me exactly how he mutilated his victims and would always end it with "And they never found him" then send me home alone.
My interest sparked in later life as I suspected one of mine could have been Jack. I think on reflection I was wrong, but then found another relation was an undercover cop on the case. That was how I got into Ripperology.
Most Londoners know of him, many say "Oh he was royalty wasn't he?"
It takes maybe a connection to really spark interest ?

Pat.............................................

[MrBarnett]

Hi Pat,

There seem to be plenty of JTR enthusiasts who don't have any connection to the East End, probably the vast majority. For me, family research and JTR go hand in hand. I stumbled across Casebook in the first place while googling Breezers Hill. The screen filled with Casebook hits. Out of curiosity I clicked on one of them and have been hooked ever since.

Regards,

MrB

[Damaso Marte]

I'd be especially curious about how modern residents of the East End feel about Ripperologists and the mass of people who go on Ripper tours there each night.

I was in London for a few days in early 2012 and spent maybe a half hour in Whitechapel (Aldgate, really). I got the sense that the woman who saw me taking a picture of a random corner in Mitre Square knew what I was up to and had an "oh boy, another one" attitude towards me.

[lynn cates]

mum

Hello Pat. Your nan should have met my mum.

I recall watching the Baker and Berman film years ago, and her comments were, "That's just how it was. He'd cut 'em up and just disappear. No one could find a trace of him."

Cheers.
LC

[Paddy]

Damaso: I'd be especially curious about how modern residents of the East End feel about Ripperologists and the mass of people who go on Ripper tours there each night.
Probably fed up they didn't think of doing it a while back !

Lynn : Bless em ! My one had love and hate tattood on her fingers and many other wierd tattoos ie hearts with daggers through, snakes round a cross and odd dots all over. I used to love looking at them. She was a bit strange but lovely....

Mr B: Our interest in genealogy shows our pleasure to delve into the past.
Did you ever hear mention what Breezers Hill was like?

Pat............................................... ..........

[MrBarnett]

Pat,

These were my maternal grandparents. They were quite old when I was born, so I never had a chance to discuss such matters with them. Nan was born in Breezers hill, but didn't live there for very long as far as I can tell as the house she was born in was demolished and a warehouse built in its place shortly after. The next place I have a record of her living is Mayfield Buildings near Liz Stride's Swedish Church and then she moved to Pinchin Street...

I wonder whether we shouldn't start a separate thread for this kind of thing. Some people out there might have some genuinely juicy titbits.

Regards,

MrB

[Phil Carter]

Pat,

These were my maternal grandparents. They were quite old when I was born, so I never had a chance to discuss such matters with them. Nan was born in Breezers hill, but didn't live there for very long as far as I can tell as the house she was born in was demolished and a warehouse built in its place shortly after. The next place I have a record of her living is Mayfield Buildings near Liz Stride's Swedish Church and then she moved to Pinchin Street...

I wonder whether we shouldn't start a separate thread for this kind of thing. Some people out there might have some genuinely juicy titbits.

Regards,

MrB

Hello all,

Am just popping in for a very rare visit to write a little on this thread. I have now retired from all research etc but this thread caught my eye.

My maternal grandmother, born 1888 right in the thick of it all, started me on my interest, aged 8 or 9. We lived in West London at the time, but a few times we went back there...and we drove around the East End, stopping at various places. I learnt a lot over the next 11-12 years, before she died in 1978, aged 90. She told me of the people, the background, the fear..even when she was a child. She told of the gangs, the poverty, the rivalry, the groupings, the friendliest of people and the roughest of people. She told of the local beat policemen, where was "safe" and where wasn't safe. There is much more I could say here, but this snippet should suffice. I was very fortunate to have been told of this background.

After the turn of the Century, and all the way up until the 2nd World War, and a little beyond, various close family members lived in the East End. The very last of a very large and extensive family with many East End connections died last year, aged 89. One member, my great Aunt, lived in Shoreditch, various places, but had one local pub, The Flying Scud. Derelict for many years, and now, I believe torn down, it was a tiny, triangular shaped pub, which throughout the decades had a pretty low reputation. "thieves palace", I've heard it referred to. She herself was a tiny woman of around 5ft tall, and just as round, older sister of my Grandmother. (They were 9 children). When she walked in the pub, even though she was as poor as a church mouse, she got credit- for the ale jug was filled up and taken home again. According to my father, she frightened the living daylights out of any man, rough or not. He told me that this was quite typical of this generation. "Battle-axe" isn't quite appropriate...but hard... oh yes... some of those women were as hard as nails.

She lived (just after the 2nd World War) in one room and a kitchen in Shoredith, with outside running water (cold). The kitchen had a hearth, and the "room" had a table, 3 chairs and one single bed. According to my father, and I have no reason to doubt him, that was about the largest "dwelling" she ever lived ijn, even raising her 5 children in conditions as similar as these.

Of the 9 children, the siblings of my grandmother, born between 1871 and 1888, 5 reached maturity. 4 died aged 4 years old or less. Such was the norm. The older ones never went to school, and the great aunt I mentioned above, born in 1872, could not read nor write her entire life. X was the limit of her scholastic abilities. It was the norm. Even my gran, who did attend school, left aged 12 to start work, in 1900. (I never forget the time she told me that she was about 20 years old before she first switched on an electic light, via a switch on the wall).

As far as "Ripperology" is concerned, I was distinctly told that "many of 'em (the locals in Whitechapel and Spitalfields) stretched the stories beyond truth and back again" - by my gran. The most important thing she stressed to me was the words of her mother, told as she grew up. The local poplace were very, very scared. They were angry. They were confused. But most of all, they tried, for many years afterwards, NOT to walk out at night in darkness. Especialy autumn and wintertime. That fear of the night was transmitted to gran as a small child and she wore it her entire life, even in Wst London. I had to go and do her nick-nack shopping for her after school in November, December and January months, when the light faded quickly.

With that, I hope it has given some a small idea of what REAL East End people, their lives and their situation was like. These reminiscences are far from abnormal. It is easy to over stress and extend the bounds of truth. I have, for the sake of time, and as not to bore, given just a small taste. A few well known Ripperologists who I am honoured to call friends, know a lot more of all the above background.

There are a few Ripperologists on this site who also have similar backgrounds.

Hope this was of some interest to the topic and the readers.

Happy New Year and good health to all in 2014 :-) Cheerio :-)


Phil