All through the night?..Or..Jack the Imsomniac

[K-453]

Maybe "Jack" was like Napoleon and could do with three hours of sleep.

Another possibility is that he had no permanent work, but did any job he could get. On some days he had no luck and found no work, or skipped the search for it. "Curse it, no luck yet, and it's almost weekend already! To hell with it. There's time for that next Monday. Now I'll have a nice pint at the Ten Bells, and later ...!"

[Steve S]

Maybe "Jack" was like Napoleon and could do with three hours of sleep.

Another possibility is that he had no permanent work, but did any job he could get. On some days he had no luck and found no work, or skipped the search for it. "Curse it, no luck yet, and it's almost weekend already! To hell with it. There's time for that next Monday. Now I'll have a nice pint at the Ten Bells, and later ...!"

That is the way I am thinking...irregular work fits with irregular income to pick up women....

[K-453]

IMHO it fits well with the dates of the murders: weekend and NEAR weekend. To me, this doesn't look like someone who is fully employed, but also not like someone who is fully unemployed.

I could be underestimating the strength of the people back then, but I'm pretty sure, someone with an ordinary Victorian work schedule - 12 to 18 hours six days a week - would not have been able to commit these murders. He would have been much too exhausted.

"Jack" could have been a dock worker. Some of them were hired for the day, or even for a few hours only.

Or he was a coffee addict. Nah, just joking!


(Sorry for mistakes; English is not my first language.)

[Bridewell]

With the exception of Eddowes, we cannot rule out the possibility that the killer did not spend a substantial amount of time with his victims prior to murdering them.

Hi DM,

Even Eddowes only becomes an exception if Lawende's identification of her (by her clothing) was correct. If it wasn't, her killer could have spent 35 minutes or so in her company before killing her.

[Ginger]

Another possibility is that he had no permanent work, but did any job he could get. On some days he had no luck and found no work, or skipped the search for it. "Curse it, no luck yet, and it's almost weekend already! To hell with it. There's time for that next Monday. Now I'll have a nice pint at the Ten Bells, and later ...!"

I've wondered about that myself. Chapman was murdered early on a Saturday morning. If, as seems likely, the Ripper made a business proposition to Chapman to get her to accompany him into the backyard, then he had money on Friday night / Saturday morning. We think now of Saturday and Sunday as days off work, but in late Victorian times, Saturday was normally a half-day (if not a full day) of work, and the workmen would be paid for the week on Saturday as they left to go home. Assuming that money was used to lure her, then Chapman's killer was either someone who didn't live from payday to payday, or else someone who had gotten paid on Friday, perhaps a casual labourer.

[Steve S]

I like the way people are thinking here............

[caz]

At the very least, he had to come across as someone who would be good for a few pence, even if he didn't have the money to show his victims up front.

Love,

Caz
X

[Steve S]

At the very least, he had to come across as someone who would be good for a few pence, even if he didn't have the money to show his victims up front.

Love,

Caz
X

Yep...

[K-453]

Another possibility crossed my mind: Jack had no work, but his wife had.

Some profile (Dr. Bond?) says, he had no regular occupation, but "some sort of small income". I always thought this meant inherited money. But it could be the income of a wife.

Some guys back then stayed at home while their wives were working, and, unfortunately, this had nothing to do with emancipation.

If she worked night shifts, ample time for Jack to go hunting and clean himself up afterwards. "That spot of blood? Oh, the cat brought home another mouse."

Just brainstorming.

[Steve S]

Open-minded Brainstorming is good...As long as one doesn't start believing what is best suited for 0300 discussions when the wine is red.......

[Lechmere]

The estimated times of death of the various victims were:

Martha Tabram – Tuesday morning - 2.45 am (after Bank Holiday Monday)
Polly Nichols – Friday morning – 3.40 am
Annie Chapman – Saturday morning – 4.00 am or 5.30 am
Liz Stride - Sunday morning - 12.55 am
Catheine Eddowes – Sunday morning 1.40 am
Mary Kelly – Friday morning – roughly between 2.00 am and 8.30 am
Rose Mylett – Thursday morning – 4.00 am
Alice Mackenzie – Wednesday morning – 12.45 am
Pinchin Street Torso (dumping time) – Wednesday morning - 5.00 am
Francis Coles – Friday morning - 2:15 am

Of course they may not all have been by the same hand.

Turning up for work with the risk of having blood on his clothing would be a danger if his workplace was well illuminated and there were lots of people about to see him. If it was quiet at that time of day and relatively dark, then plausibly the culprit would be able to clean himself up before being in clear view.
The culprit would face the same if not greater difficulty if he lived in a lodging house, hotel or at home with a family and returned there after each attack. Staying at large on the streets would have been just as risky. That is why the blood on clothes issue is something of a red herring to fixate on.

The murders which could have been committed potentially ‘on the way to work’, (for an early starter of course) include Tabram, Nichols, Chapman, Kelly and possibly Coles.
But we do not know the exact work patterns of any potential early morning worker killer.

Stride and Eddowes were killed on Sunday morning – not a usual work day and earlier than most others.

If the crimes were committed by the same person then, due to the timings it is highly unlikely that they could have been committed both on the way and on the way back from work.
If they were all committed on the way back from work, then it is likely that Tabram should be excluded unless the culprit was working on the Bank Holiday.
However, I would suggest that the geographical pattern does not lend itself to a return from work commute theory, unless he worked at different locations – building sites for example.

In the case of Charles Lechmere we only have a snap shot of one morning to judge his work times. Using this, he actually fits very neatly for Tabram, Nichols, Chapman, Kelly and Coles.
The nature of his work could have given him the opportunity to dump the Pinchin Street Torso and to have killed Chapman and Kelly if their time of death was at the later end of the spectrum. His work could also easily have taken him to the Mylett crime scene (due to the proximity of a Pickfords office and a station on a direct line to Broad Street)
The proximity of his mother’s house, where one of his daughters also lived, links him on his day off to the earlier in the night ‘double event’ killings.
As for MacKenzie – if by the same hand (and I think it is more likely she was killed by the same person) – maybe he left for work early. There had been a big gap since the previous killing and maybe he was nervous of starting again. Who knows.

Please excuse me for mentioning Lechmere here, I only did so because others brought his name into it.

[Steve S]

Not sure how Coles "fits neatly" (I don't think she's a Ripper victim anyway)....Bit early and wrong direction?

[Lechmere]

Ha!
I did say 'possibly' with regard to Coles!
I too have doubts over whether she was a Ripper victim.
Also yes she was south and earlier.
Against that perhaps he was being more cautious and avoiding where he had been before, and hence allowed more search time.
Perhaps he had spent the night at his mother's at St George's Street (The Highway). This would have put the murder scene almost on his way to work. By then his second step father had died, so his mother was again a widow, but still had care of one of his daughters.

[Jon Guy]

Ed

Also yes she was south and earlier.
.

Coles was hanging around the Whitechapel Road picking up men and heading off down Leman St area shortly before she died. So, it`s not a given she met her killer at Swallow Gardens.

Same with all the victims. Where did they pick up the killer ?
For example, Eddowes had enought time from leaving the nick to walk a bit down Whitechapel High St, Houndsditch or wherever before heading towards Mitre Sq.

[Lechmere]

True - my guess is most victims were picked up on main road - Whitechapel Road - Whitechapel High Street, Commercial Street. I doubt Coles was picked up on Whitechapel High Street as it is a bit of a walk and I suspect there would have been closer spots to stop off along the way.