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  • New way of thinking.

    Hi,
    For countless years , I have gone with the flow when thinking who the Ripper was . was it five victims , or maybe six counting Tabram , and what about post Millers court.?.
    I have come to the conclusion we should alter our views , because this line of inquiry is most likely all wrong.
    I now believe that Emma smith , was attacked by a gang [ as she stated,]
    Martha Tabram , killed in a dispute, maybe by a man and a woman , [ Pearly Poll maybe?]
    Polly Nichols was killed by a unknown killer who was after body parts , but halted his act , when he was aware of people close by.
    Annie chapman by the same killer, who succeeded in obtaining it.
    [ Letter to the police. 'I killed the woman that i was after , that is Chapman'' I believe summed that pair of murders up..
    Three weeks later a womans throat was cut in Dutfields yard, Unknown
    Same night Eddowes was killed by a unknown killer , viciously mutilated , by someone who was to kill the last victim Mary Kelly.
    Why?
    I believe now that Mary Kelly Stole something of value from someone who wanted revenge, and the man that killed Eddowes was a hit , all he knew was the woman he was after was in the East End , and she was said to be living with a man called Kelly. Eddowes did live with a Kelly. , but if she said that, he would have said do you know of a woman aged twenties living with a Kelly , As Eddowes knew Dorset street she most likely knew a woman living with Kelly. thus he then having his target,
    When Eddowes was arrested, and if the man was nearby , he would have maybe have been aware of 'Nothing,' She gave her name as Mary Ann Kelly at the station , so initially, it may have meant at the time of arrested, she said 'Nothing' when asked her name[ as in no comment] .
    So why was she killed ?
    Simply because when Mary Kelly was killed , she would have been aware of the man who was asking questions, and she may describe him. so she was despatched as soon as he saw her, which happened to be a few hours later. in a copy cat version of the previous murders.
    Now the writing on the wall 'The Juwes are the men that will not be blamed for Nothing.'
    I interpret as The jews are the men not to be blamed for nothing, meaning they are not responsible for her death,.
    Now Mary Kelly
    George Hutchinson. Liar, Killer witness.
    Witness, He saw the man he described , and that man was hot the man that was Kellys killer, Hutchinson had too good a look at him for that man to have killed Mary.
    I do believe she met her killer in the morning who could not despatch her, in copy cat fashion , because of Hutchinsons man during the night,
    The murders then stopped. and no one was ever arrested, and tried, because the police put the series as a result of one man. and alibis therefore were tight,
    All sounds B movie material. but a lot of facts fit these speculations.
    Best Regards Richard.

  • #2
    The murders then stopped. and no one was ever arrested, and tried, because the police put the series as a result of one man. and alibis therefore were tight,

    Hello Richard,

    There is a big flaw in that line of thinking. Since the police didn't know who that one man could be no alibi could be tight.

    c.d.

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    • #3
      Hi
      What i was saying was, in a roundabout way, if someone was suspected after Millers court , and they had say a alibi for Nichols , Chapman etc they would have not taken them as strong suspects. as they believed it was the work of the same man .
      Richard
      Last edited by richardnunweek; 01-16-2023, 04:45 PM.

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      • #4
        Ok, Richard. Misunderstood you.

        c.d.

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        • #5
          Hello,

          Very interesting post. I look forward to what the replies will be.

          I do see some “Dr. Stanley” type references towards MJK in your ideas, which is unusual given the current theories abound, and I like it. Time to shake things up!

          Columbo

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          • #6
            Hi Columbo
            I have always been a theorists , and in the past have had strong beliefs This is a different method of approach, based on fact , oral history , capped with my imagination. and 48 years of interest
            Regards Richard.

            Comment


            • #7
              I always find it strange that because of slight differences in the MO many people speculate that their was more than one killer involved. If this happened in a more modern era I don't think there would be any doubt that the series was carried out by the same hand. Possibly with the exclusion of Emma Smith and Francis Coles. Though there inclusion is still a possibility. Martha Tabram should certainly be included IMO.

              I think the mists of time and missing clues have allowed this kind of speculation to take place.
              Best wishes,

              Tristan

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              • #8
                Hi Richardnunweek

                You would not be the first to re-examine the murders to better refine those we could ascribe to one man and those that are not related murders. That is a useful process imho. However, it would be interesting to understand how you come to your conclusions.

                For what it is worth, my view on the victims you cite are:

                Originally posted by richardnunweek View Post
                I now believe that Emma smith , was attacked by a gang [ as she stated,]
                I have long held this view. There is little to suggest this might be a ripper murder. In fact, I do not think murder was intended with this attack at all and if Emma Smith had sought medical help earlier she may even have survived.

                Originally posted by richardnunweek View Post
                Martha Tabram , killed in a dispute, maybe by a man and a woman , [ Pearly Poll maybe?]
                You would need to provide a fuller explanation of the basis for your belief before it could be evaluated. For my part, I think there is strong reason to believe Martha Tabram may have been a ripper victim (time of death, location of murder, knife attack, the multiple stabbings) but there are elements associated with other victims missing which leaves room for doubt.

                Originally posted by richardnunweek View Post
                Polly Nichols was killed by a unknown killer who was after body parts , but halted his act , when he was aware of people close by.
                Annie chapman by the same killer, who succeeded in obtaining it.
                [ Letter to the police. 'I killed the woman that i was after , that is Chapman'' I believe summed that pair of murders up..​
                I think there are too many similarities between these two murders other than to conclude they were committed by one person, and that is the person we now call the ripper.

                Originally posted by richardnunweek View Post
                Three weeks later a womans throat was cut in Dutfields yard, Unknown
                I personally think Stride was more likely than not a ripper victim and subscribe to the interrupted explanation, especially given Eddowes murder later the same night and the similarities with the throat cutting.

                Originally posted by richardnunweek View Post
                Same night Eddowes was killed by a unknown killer , viciously mutilated , by someone who was to kill the last victim Mary Kelly.
                Both these murders share many elements of the murders of Polly Nichols and Annie Chapman - if even more extreme in their intensity of mutilation. They seem to me to be victims of the ripper also.

                There are no post Kelly murders that I think there is a strong case to lay at the door of the ripper but there is one pre Tabram attack that I think there is strong reason to believe was committed by the ripper. That is the attack on Annie Millward. Although she survived the attack there are many similarities with the murder of Martha Tabram and if you agree there is an escalation in the attacks as the murder spree progresses, then Annie Millward seems to be a good candidate for the first attempt by the ripper to me. The similarities which suggest and support this possiblity includes the location, knife attack and multiple stab wounds.


                Last edited by etenguy; 01-18-2023, 12:51 AM.

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                • #9
                  I've been curious why stealing organs for profit motive is always discounted? It's a viable theory. I know the coroner was supposedly debunked when he brought this up, because a doctor was looking for uteri for a book project and apparently got them from another source, but that doesn't mean this wasn't a motive.

                  I'm not so sure about Tabram being a ripper victim. she was in the company of a man and he never was identified so it's more than likely he killed her. My question is how did he keep her quiet in the location she was killed. By all accounts this was a big, boisterous woman who liked to party. I don't see her not putting up a fight. Again that's a guess.

                  And of course we have to deal with a few lawmen saying Kosminski was the suspect.

                  Another thread was talking about the torn apron from Eddowes, which made me think. Did JTR bring a sack with him to carry away the organs? Some speculate the apron piece was used to carry the parts. But what about Chapman and Kelly? He couldn't put them in his pocket and not expect a mess.

                  Columbo
                  Last edited by Columbo; 01-18-2023, 09:48 PM.

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                  • #10
                    Hi
                    Good point
                    How do you keep someone quite whilst stabbing 39 times
                    She was on a tenement landing , feet from residents .
                    Strangled first Dagger through the heart, then proceed to stab in a frenzy?
                    It has the hallmarks of more then one person involved , but all committed in silence
                    Strange .
                    He must have carried some kind of parcel, several were seen carrying news paper parcels,
                    There is so much we cannot know,
                    But somewhere mixed up in all the research over the years , lies the truth of what happened that Autumn .
                    Regards Richard,.

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                    • #11
                      Clearly, all 39 inhabitants of George Yard Buildings were involved - one stab each!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Joshua Rogan View Post
                        Clearly, all 39 inhabitants of George Yard Buildings were involved - one stab each!
                        Do you know i never thought of that

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Joshua Rogan View Post
                          Clearly, all 39 inhabitants of George Yard Buildings were involved - one stab each!
                          Yes, that makes sense to me now...JTR is 39 people!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            The East End Express?
                            Sapere Aude

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by richardnunweek View Post
                              hi

                              it has the hallmarks of more then one person involved

                              how? Can't see that myself.

                              he must have carried some kind of parcel

                              why must he? Seems a bit shortsighted to say 'must'. Doesn't sound very practical either, rustling about with some newspaper.
                              imo..

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