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The Seaside Home: Could Schwartz or Lawende Have Put the Ripper's Neck in a Noose?

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  • Originally posted by Aethelwulf View Post

    I've don't believe the whole 'lunatic' theory for JtR. I think it's more likely the ripper appeared entirely normal and inoffensive and din't have any mental problems.

    ...
    You mean like those Paragons of Sanity Dahlmer & Bundy???

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    • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

      I certainly think that this could have been the case DM. If the police were pretty certain that they’d got their man then we can imagine their frustration if the witness just wasn’t confident enough to give a positive ID especially when considering the ramifications.
      And if, for instance, Lawende was the Witness and he said something like "I just am not sure. And religiously, I can't swear to something that will hang a man just on a suspicion." If the suspect was ALSO Jewish, that could have led a third party, especially someone who just heard about the incident from someone else or just read read a written report to make a conclusion that a SHARED Religion was the Primary reason.

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      • Originally posted by C. F. Leon View Post

        You mean like those Paragons of Sanity Dahlmer & Bundy???
        Steady on there. I'm talking about being outwardly nuts, being restrained and carted off to the loony bin. Was not Bundy outwardly normal? That's how he trapped his victims. How many serial killers of the ripper type have ended up in an asylum or similar?

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        • Originally posted by Aethelwulf View Post

          Steady on there. I'm talking about being outwardly nuts, being restrained and carted off to the loony bin. Was not Bundy outwardly normal?
          ...
          That was EXACTLY my point. The Ripper wouldn't have been able to "hire" his victims if he was COMPLETELY a drooler, especially later at the height of the Ripper Scare. He certainly was able to make some preparations, such as polishing the buttons, farthings, or whatever he was using as bait. And perhaps that's WHY the murders stopped. He degenerated to the point that the potential victims were scared away.

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          • Originally posted by C. F. Leon View Post

            That was EXACTLY my point. The Ripper wouldn't have been able to "hire" his victims if he was COMPLETELY a drooler, especially later at the height of the Ripper Scare. He certainly was able to make some preparations, such as polishing the buttons, farthings, or whatever he was using as bait. And perhaps that's WHY the murders stopped. He degenerated to the point that the potential victims were scared away.
            don't get so aggressive. your two replies don't really make sense.

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            • This one does:

              Originally posted by C. F. Leon View Post
              He degenerated to the point that the potential victims were scared away.

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              • Originally posted by Darryl Kenyon View Post
                And he got all the info regarding the ID from Sagar. This assumes that Lawende was the witness of course and Kosminski was the butchers row suspect.l
                I've been trying to shoehorn the enfeebled former hairdresser, Aaron Kosminski, into the role of the Butcher's Row suspect now for years -- and can't do it to my satisfaction. There may have been a suspect with somewhat similar attributes to Aaron who worked in the area and may have had the name, Kosminski.

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                • Originally posted by Scott Nelson View Post

                  I've been trying to shoehorn the enfeebled former hairdresser, Aaron Kosminski, into the role of the Butcher's Row suspect now for years -- and can't do it to my satisfaction. There may have been a suspect with somewhat similar attributes to Aaron who worked in the area and may have had the name, Kosminski.
                  Hi Scott,

                  Could the Butcher's Row suspect have been Jacob Levy?

                  Cheers, George
                  It's sad that governments are chiefed by the double tongues. There is iron in your words of death for all Comanche to see, and so there is iron in your words of life. It shall be life. - Ten Bears

                  All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. - Bladerunner

                  ​Disagreeing doesn't have to be disagreeable - Jeff Hamm

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                  • Yes, I don't see why not. Incidently, Sagar was a plain-clothes City Police Inspector who took part in many surveillance activities and raids -- mostly gambling houses and brothels. His knowledge of a murder suspect in Butchers Row who was apparently part of an identification proceeding makes Sagar a prime candidate to have been present at the ID. There's also a good chance he was one of the City CID officials who kept surveillance on Kosminski's brother's house for a "short time."

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                    • Originally posted by Scott Nelson View Post
                      Yes, I don't see why not. Incidently, Sagar was a plain-clothes City Police Inspector who took part in many surveillance activities and raids -- mostly gambling houses and brothels. His knowledge of a murder suspect in Butchers Row who was apparently part of an identification proceeding makes Sagar a prime candidate to have been present at the ID. There's also a good chance he was one of the City CID officials who kept surveillance on Kosminski's brother's house for a "short time."
                      So how come Major Smith makes no mention of it ?

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                      • If Kosminski was Jack the Ripper, then Kelly was an irish woman. Or a welsh woman. Or died at Miller's Court...

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                        • Originally posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
                          So how come Major Smith makes no mention of it ?
                          Major Smith didn't believe anything meaningful would come out of the ID because he interviewed one of the witnesses beforehand and came away convinced that the witness couldn't remember the suspect. I think Smith remained unconvinced by Kosminski while others under his command may have felt otherwise.

                          Smith's main objection to Anderson was his perception of Anderson's anti-Semitism.

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                          • Originally posted by Scott Nelson View Post

                            Major Smith didn't believe anything meaningful would come out of the ID because he interviewed one of the witnesses beforehand and came away convinced that the witness couldn't remember the suspect. I think Smith remained unconvinced by Kosminski while others under his command may have felt otherwise.

                            Smith's main objection to Anderson was his perception of Anderson's anti-Semitism.
                            You don't know what Major Smith believed.

                            If the Id was as positive as has been written then JTR had been identified and Major Smith would have known that and would have surely made mention of it in his memoirs

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                            • Originally posted by Trevor Marriott View Post

                              You don't know what Major Smith believed.

                              If the Id was as positive as has been written then JTR had been identified and Major Smith would have known that and would have surely made mention of it in his memoirs

                              www.trevormarriott.co.uk
                              You think? The City Commissioner would have made mention of the fact that The Metropolitan Police had succeeded where his City of London Police had failed? Perhaps he would - but then again, knowing Chief Police Officers, perhaps he wouldn't. As you rightly point out, we don't know what Major Smith believed but, by the same token, we don't know what he thought either.
                              I won't always agree but I'll try not to be disagreeable.

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                              • Originally posted by Bridewell View Post

                                You think? The City Commissioner would have made mention of the fact that The Metropolitan Police had succeeded where his City of London Police had failed? Perhaps he would - but then again, knowing Chief Police Officers, perhaps he wouldn't. As you rightly point out, we don't know what Major Smith believed but, by the same token, we don't know what he thought either.
                                But if as has been suggested the ID witness was Lawnede then Major Smith could not have failed to know about it, and if as I have suggested the ID was that positive then as has been written in the marginalia the suspect was watched day and night by City officers then again Major Smith could not have failed to be aware, which as I have continually stated makes the marginalia unsafe to rely on





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