A Victorian Apron Full of Questions...

[MrBarnett]

Clearly the times given are estimates, something everyone (except Fisherman) seems to understand.

The Church Lane man was wearing "a short jacket and a sailor's hat". That would be a sennet hat, as per the 20 March 1888 edition of the Navy List.

Sennet hats looked like this.




According to Swanson's notes, Lawende saw a man wearing a "grey cloth cap with peak of same colour", which is different color, material, and style from a "sailor hat".

‘Allo, sailor.

[Abby Normal]

Clearly the times given are estimates, something everyone (except Fisherman) seems to understand.

The Church Lane man was wearing "a short jacket and a sailor's hat". That would be a sennet hat, as per the 20 March 1888 edition of the Navy List.

Sennet hats looked like this.




According to Swanson's notes, Lawende saw a man wearing a "grey cloth cap with peak of same colour", which is different color, material, and style from a "sailor hat".

given that all the witnesses describe a cap with a peak its obvious they are talking about the sailers hat Abberline refers to, that gary posted and the type that chapman is seen wearing in the infamous photo.

[Fiver]

Bearing in mind that the majority of sailors wandering around the East End at the time would have been foreign merchantmen, it’s not clear what the locals would have meant by a ‘sailor’s hat’. Something like these would be my best guess.

Your first picture was known as a "fisherman's cap" or a Breton cap". It appears to be a modern reproduction.

Your second picture is at least in period, but it is again a cap, not a hat.

[DJA]

given that all the witnesses describe a cap with a peak its obvious they are talking about the sailers hat Abberline refers to, that gary posted and the type that chapman is seen wearing in the infamous photo.

Sarah Lewis deposed: I live at 24, Great Pearl-street, and am a laundress. I know Mrs. Keyler, in Miller's-court, and went to her house at 2, Miller's-court, at 2.30a.m. on Friday. It is the first house. I noticed the time by the Spitalfields' Church clock. When I went into the court, opposite the lodging-house I saw a man with a wideawake. There was no one talking to him. He was a stout-looking man, and not very tall. The hat was black. I did not take any notice of his clothes. The man was looking up the court; he seemed to be waiting or looking for some one.

[Abby Normal]

Sarah Lewis deposed: I live at 24, Great Pearl-street, and am a laundress. I know Mrs. Keyler, in Miller's-court, and went to her house at 2, Miller's-court, at 2.30a.m. on Friday. It is the first house. I noticed the time by the Spitalfields' Church clock. When I went into the court, opposite the lodging-house I saw a man with a wideawake. There was no one talking to him. He was a stout-looking man, and not very tall. The hat was black. I did not take any notice of his clothes. The man was looking up the court; he seemed to be waiting or looking for some one.

we were talking of the night of the double event

[Abby Normal]

Your first picture was known as a "fisherman's cap" or a Breton cap". It appears to be a modern reproduction.

Your second picture is at least in period, but it is again a cap, not a hat.

last time I checked a cap is a hat

[Fiver]

we were talking of the night of the double event

PC Smith saw Stride with a man wearing a hard felt deerstalker hat of dark colour.

[Fiver]

last time I checked a cap is a hat

Not all hats are caps.

A sailor hat looks nothing like a fisherman's cap.

[Abby Normal]

PC Smith saw Stride with a man wearing a hard felt deerstalker hat of dark colour.

nice try. marshall, schwartz and lawende and co all saw a man with a peaked cap the night of the double event. a deerstalker is also peaked, Iknow on both sides.-so ill be generous and say smith sighting is a wash. I still win 3-nil. and theres church lane man too just for a bonus. lol

oh by the way the lead cop on the case also said the ripper wore a peaked cap.

the ripper was wearing a peaked cap, "like a sailor would wear" the night of the double event. no question.one with a peak and not a brim.

and just so you know im not a total contrarian nob ill concede though(to DJA and you both) on the night of Marys murder, the ripper was probably wearing a wide awake hat kind of like the one you posted. One with a brim and not a peak.

[Abby Normal]

Yes, that is true, however, there's a different temperament between someone pumping with adrenaline after a kill, and a beaten man resigned to his fate in a jail cell.



And that's one of the problems. The writer was either blaming jews for an unknown offence or trying to set them up. We cannot say what he meant.

I wonder if the graffito was unfinished? We talk about the killer being interrupted with Nichols & Stride... but what if he'd also been disturbed in Goulston Street? That could explain why the writing was small enough to fit on two or three bricks? He had planned to write more below it.



Good point, Abby. Perhaps if Hutchinson was the killer he ruled if the graffito wouldn't do the trick he'd "identify" a jewish suspect and insert himself into the investigation at the same time? I'm not saying I subscribe to that belief but worth entertaining, no?

HI Harry
sorry for late response, just seeing this.

Yes, that is true, however, there's a different temperament between someone pumping with adrenaline after a kill, and a beaten man resigned to his fate in a jail cell.

Im not sure if the ripper was pumping with adrenaline after the eddowes kill or not, but if he was, then surely he was after the craziness of the stride kill (murdering a woman, being interupted by schwartz, yelling angrily etc.) and yet here he is moments later quietly chatting up Eddowes.

the rest of your posts comments and querries-yes definite posibilities-especially the last one re hutch!

[Robert St Devil]

the gsg disparages jews and what a coincidence... the ripper was seen, disturbed by several jews that night. one, schwartz, who abberline said looked very jewish.

hi abby

devil’s advocate.

taking into consideration that the GSG was written by Jack the Ripper and exposes a [pro/anti]semitic motivation for his crimes… doesn’t that lead to a glaring contradiction?

if Jack the Ripper favors the Jews, then…
how would he rationalize his mutilations bolstering local Jewish sentiments when his murders are only going to incite violence and hate against the Jews (ala Chapman)?

if Jack the Ripper despises the Jews, then…
why target non-Jewish women to mutilate? Why not commit his crimes against Jews if they are the bane of his existence?

however…

so as not to come across as completely dismissive since I still find the GSG a relevant topic with regards to the case, the best answer that i can muster (for now) with regards to possible underlying Jewish motivations by Jack the Ripper is: that he took serious offense to [anglican/non-Jewish] women taking Jewish men for sexual clients (obviously, the list of offenses could run the gamut)

[Abby Normal]

hi abby

devil’s advocate.

taking into consideration that the GSG was written by Jack the Ripper and exposes a [pro/anti]semitic motivation for his crimes… doesn’t that lead to a glaring contradiction?

if Jack the Ripper favors the Jews, then…
how would he rationalize his mutilations bolstering local Jewish sentiments when his murders are only going to incite violence and hate against the Jews (ala Chapman)?

if Jack the Ripper despises the Jews, then…
why target non-Jewish women to mutilate? Why not commit his crimes against Jews if they are the bane of his existence?

however…

so as not to come across as completely dismissive since I still find the GSG a relevant topic with regards to the case, the best answer that i can muster (for now) with regards to possible underlying Jewish motivations by Jack the Ripper is: that he took serious offense to [anglican/non-Jewish] women taking Jewish men for sexual clients (obviously, the list of offenses could run the gamut)

hi devil
the ripper killed and mutilated women because that was his fantasy amd what his serial killing was all about. the jewish stuff was just away to get back at all the jews that bothered him the night if the double event and confuse police.

[BooksbyBJThompson]

And you know that how?

No serial killer is going to risk a kill on the way to work, on the route he takes every morning. Possible commuters like him to witnesse, possible blood stains, possible being late for work with bloody body parts in tow. Not happening. The Cross/Lechmere is a shining red herring.

[BooksbyBJThompson]

Not all hats are caps.

A sailor hat looks nothing like a fisherman's cap.

And nobody is asking, did Jack wear a hat? Something goes wrong in a kill.
The lady fights.
You lose control... and your hat, a hat with a name tag, possibly, with blood stains possibly. Part of a uniform your boss won't be happy you've lost.
Yes, people wore hats back then more than they did not.
But would a serial killer?
Would Jack?
That's the first question which needs to be asked.

[DJA]

Wouldn't wanna stand out by not wearing a hat