What 5 Questions Would You Like Answered?

[RivkahChaya]

Did she still need her doss money at 3:30AM?



Same as Nichols: no mention of prostitution.

Was begging out of the question?

Did she still need her doss money post 4:00AM?

That's an interesting point. Did the doss houses have any beds left at that point? There are flop-houses in big cities here, where people can rent really tiny rooms on a weekly basis, cash up front, no lease, no references, and the people who rent them are on/off homeless-- they stay in free shelters, if they can get one, they sleep outside when the weather is good, they get cash-under-the-table work, and then they can take a room when the weather is bad.

Those rooms fill up as fast as they empty; there's never a vacancy. And they cost more than a bed in a doss house.

When did the doss houses kick people out? 6am? 8am? If there were beds left, were they half-price?

[DVV]

Oh Lynn, you're in trouble now.

A creature. Out of control. Frankenstein.

Tell him Nichols was picking flowers in Bucks Row.

And Chapman was hurrying to hear the mattins.

[Colin Roberts]

"What was Nichols doing?"

Well, she talked as if she were soliciting. No reason to doubt her.

Did she, Lynn?

According to whom?

The deputy at 18 Thrawl Street that was quoted in a single tabloid: "See what a jolly bonnet I've got now"?

The same deputy that was never identified by that single tabloid, nor called to testify at the Nichols inquest?

Emily Holland?

What did she say to Emily Holland that suggested that she was off to solicit sexual favors?

She'd had her doss money and spent it three times that day? No mention of prostitution.

She needed to accrue her doss money, yet again? No mention of prostitution.

Was begging not an option for any of these women? Were they somehow above doing that?

Did she still need her doss money at 3:30AM?

"And Chapman?"

Same. If she is to be believed.

Same as Nichols: no mention of prostitution.

Was begging out of the question?

Did she still need her doss money post 4:00AM?

[DVV]

Hello (once more) David. Thanks.

Hi again Lynn.

"everybody knows all C5 were at least casual prostitutes. So yes, do your job."

My job is first to figure out what happened.

Escape lane. Try another job.

"The two victims of the mad pork butcher are innocent of non-soliciting."

If they told the truth, of course.

If you mean we only have their word to presume they were soliciting, you're doubly ridiculous, I'm afraid.

"You know a lot."

I said PRESUME.

Esacape lane again. Why don't you answer my question ? They had a date although not knowing when she would be released ?

"I presume you can produce evidence that Berner Street was not frequented by prostitutes."

Only the club member statements and others at inquest.

"If not, I can produce one that says it was."

You're on. Whom at inquest said this?

Oh, you're some kind of Trevor Mariott. The inquest, only the inquest (Trevor got it from Luther, I know).
Police were present at the inquest. And they were not surprised about Berner Street. They considered Liz just as they considered Nichols and Chapman : old prostitutes killed by somebody who acted as a client. Have you read something from the official files saying : "Wait... A prostitute in Berner Street ? Impossible !"
You have not. But I have an article that says a lot regarding prostitution in Berner Street.
So stop arguing on this, please. You're lost.

Cheers Lynn

[lynn cates]

case

Hello David. Thanks.

"For counter-evidence you need something."

Counter evidence? The defendant need not even testify. The prostituter--excuse me--prosecutor must establish guilt.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

go for it

Hello (once more) David. Thanks.

"everybody knows all C5 were at least casual prostitutes. So yes, do your job."

My job is first to figure out what happened.

"The two victims of the mad pork butcher are innocent of non-soliciting."

If they told the truth, of course.

"You know a lot."

I said PRESUME.

"I presume you can produce evidence that Berner Street was not frequented by prostitutes."

Only the club member statements and others at inquest.

"If not, I can produce one that says it was."

You're on. Whom at inquest said this?

Cheers.
LC

[DVV]

Nope.
For counter-evidence you need something.
You have nothing.

Cheers

[lynn cates]

invisible

Hello (yet again) David. Thanks.

"When women are soliciting, they don't register : "I, the undersigned bLiz Stride, will solicit tonight in Berner Street until I get my throat cut...""

But for evidence we need money, semen, a statement.

Ah, almost forgot, invisible money, and invisible semen.

Got it.

Cheers.
LC

[DVV]

"Very well, but then, it's rather your job to prove they were not."

Ah, guilty until proven innocent?

Frivole. Believe it or not, but in the field you're posting, at a rate of 20 posts per day, everybody knows all C5 were at least casual prostitutes. So yes, do your job.

"What was Nichols doing?"

Well, she talked as if she were soliciting. No reason to doubt her.

"And Chapman?"

Same. If she is to be believed.

Alleluiah. The two victims of the mad pork butcher are innocent of non-soliciting.

"Why didn't Eddowes come back straight to her lodging?"

I presume she went to finish business with the chap who bought her drinks.

Waow. You know a lot. Who was he ? They had a date, although not knowing at what time she would be released ?

"And wasn't Berner Street famous for its "actively soliciting" prostitutes?"

Most certainly not.

Ah. "Most certainly not." I presume you can produce evidence that Berner Street was not frequented by prostitutes. If not, I can produce one that says it was.

Hope it helps.

Cheers.

[lynn cates]

Q & A

Hello (again) David.

"Very well, but then, it's rather your job to prove they were not."

Ah, guilty until proven innocent?

"What was Nichols doing?"

Well, she talked as if she were soliciting. No reason to doubt her.

"And Chapman?"

Same. If she is to be believed.

"Why didn't Eddowes come back straight to her lodging?"

I presume she went to finish business with the chap who bought her drinks.

"And wasn't Berner Street famous for its "actively soliciting" prostitutes?"

Most certainly not.

Cheers.
LC

[DVV]

Nàni.
You think you got it, at best.

Cheers

[lynn cates]

21 st c logic

Hello David. Thanks.

"Be patient, Lynn. I'm currently working on maps.
I'll soon produce new evidence that Whitechapel was in London."

From which, it follows that Liz and Kate were prostitutes? Got it.

Cheers.
LC

[DVV]

That sounds like you are saying any woman killed on the streets must have been a prostitute? What, was it divine retribution?

Yeah, especially when there is a car accident.
It works for dogs also.
Soliciting dogs !

Now please, open your window and go get some fresh air.

[RivkahChaya]

Casual prostitutes killed on the streets at night... ?
And we don't have the proof they were soliciting ?
Very well, but then, it's rather your job to prove they were not.
What was Nichols doing ?
And Chapman ?
Why didn't Eddowes come back straight to her lodging ?
And wasn't Berner Street famous for its "actively soliciting" prostitutes ?
The case of MJK, I concede, is more problematic: she's been killed in bed. Perhaps while actively sleeping.

Cheers Mike

That sounds like you are saying any woman killed on the streets must have been a prostitute? What, was it divine retribution?

Also, victimology is useful, but it can end up in question begging-- that is, JtR, killed prostitutes, and therefore all the women killed by him were prostitutes.

We know Polly Nichols was soliciting, and we are pretty sure Annie Chapman was, so we theorize that JtR targeted prostitutes. That's useful in that it tells us where to look for him, but it doesn't mean that every victim to follow will absolutely and with no doubt be a prostitute. We don't know what it was about Nichols and Chapman soliciting that brought them into contact with JtR. It may have been that women alone didn't speak to strangers, and so prostitutes were easy, or it may have been that he was some kind of sex police. But in the latter case, the women don't need to actually be prostitutes; the killer needs only to perceive them as such.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Dave,

Thank you very much.

Regards,

Simon