A Theory -The access to Mary Kelly

[lynn cates]

dark

Hello (again) CD. Thanks.

"Is a glow really something that they would have taken notice of?"

Yes, IF they were testifying that there was NO light in her room.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

bed

Hello CD. Thanks.

" As he takes off the coat, he does a quick sleight of hand and takes the knife as well and conceals it under the coat which he puts on the bed or chair. "Here, let me pay you" as he reaches for his coat and the knife."

OK. So I presume they have done their thing (even without traces--but I waive that), and now she is up, ready to go out again as he pays. But does she not need to be on the bed to be killed as per forensic evidence?

On the other hand, do you think she would remain in bed, have him pay whilst she lies there, with a, "And be sure to pull the door closed, Ducky"?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

asleep

Hello Jon. Thanks.

"I've been waiting for Lynn saying that Mary had to be asleep."

Had to be? No, but it might be easier. it would also help immensely if we knew her TOD.

Cheers.
LC

[c.d.]

Hello CD. Thanks. Not bad. The time would be important. IF there were a fire, surely the glow would have been seen? So it could not be during one of the "dark periods" in her room.

Cheers.
LC

I think a lot of that would depend on how observant her neighbors were. Is a glow really something that they would have taken notice of?

c.d.

[lynn cates]

main idea

Hello Mike. Thanks. That's the main idea.

Cheers.
LC

[c.d.]

Hello Lynn,

I don't see the concealment of the knife as some huge, insurmountable problem. All he would have to do would be to have the knife tucked into his pants and concealed by a coat. As he takes off the coat, he does a quick sleight of hand and takes the knife as well and conceals it under the coat which he puts on the bed or chair. "Here, let me pay you" as he reaches for his coat and the knife.

c.d.

[lynn cates]

fire

Hello CD. Thanks. Not bad. The time would be important. IF there were a fire, surely the glow would have been seen? So it could not be during one of the "dark periods" in her room.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

fertile imagination

Hello Jon. Thanks.

"So, this killer choked Mary on the bed . . ."

Possibly.

". . . then turned to pull his knife from his coat?"

But you've still the bloke standing there in his coat.

". . . draped across the chair . . ."

But then it would need to fit into the coat.

". . . or from out of his bag sitting on the floor, and commenced the mutilations, or something along those lines."

Bag? And so "MJK" never once asks, "What's in the bag Ducky?"

"Yet, you tell me this is difficult to envisage?"

I should think, well nigh impossible.

Cheers.
LC

[Wickerman]

I hope that is an acceptable interpretation of your concerns Lynn.

Best regards

I've been waiting for Lynn saying that Mary had to be asleep

Regards, Jon S.

[Ben]

Addendum to the above:

c.d. has just provided more very sensible reasons preferring a series of outdoor transactions over one that takes place in the prostitute's home. Makes considerable sense.

[Ben]

Anyone who thinks a person can only be "blind drunk" if they stagger around all over the place evidently needs to do a little more field research - either be a little more observant or start knocking back a few whiskies and see what happens. Cox observed from Mary's speech that she was "very much intoxicated", or in other words "blind drunk". There is nothing remotely problematic about this observation, and there is no credible evidence to contradict this. If anyone wishes to argue that she lied about this detail under oath because she disliked Kelly, I'd like to a little more substance behind this claim than a determination to downplay her evidence in order to put Kelly back on the streets again in the small hours. In all likelihood, a heavily intoxicated Kelly went home for the last time at 11:45pm with Blotchy, from whose pale she consumed yet more alcohol, rendering it unlikely that she would emerge at 2.00am in "spreeish" mode.

I don't know why some people have formed the impression that her alleged time in Knightsbridge was "high society", and that she lived the life of a pampered courtesan there, but it's most assuredly a misktaken one. She may have operated from her room at that stage, but that hardly made her Nicole Kidman's character from Moulin Rouge. Equally unimaginative is the assumption that she'd enforce her "Gay House" habits in an East End hovel regardless of the circumstance. If we want a reliable indication of what someone in Kelly's position would do if she were truly concerned about impending rent-collection, we can do no better than Mary Cox, who, despite having her own room, serviced her clients on the streets. Why? Well, two very obvious reasons have already been expounded. 1) It was her only "sanctuary" away from work and didn't want it sullied. 2) It was more lucrative as it meant more clients could be "got through" quicker.

And no...

STILL no...

Sarah Lewis did NOT see anyone in Miller's Court, nor did she see anyone enter the passage.

Regards,
Ben

[c.d.]

Why on earth would she perform 'quickies', in dark allys, on cold wet nights, when she is a seasoned performer with all the comforts of home nearby.

Hello Jon,

Being outside has certain advantages. Once the act is completed she can simply walk away. If she has the client in her room she could possibly be faced with a drunken, rough client that wants to go a second round (without paying) or possibly sleep there. It could be difficult to get rid of him.

c.d.

[c.d.]

Hello Michael,

Her killer only needed a second or two to hide the knife under the bed. So he wouldn't necessarily need Mary to start a fire but simply to stoke it. That accomplishes what he needs -- Mary turning her back to him for a moment.

c.d.

[Michael W Richards]

A don't know, I'm not seeing Lynn's objection.

Regards, Jon S.

I believe Jon that Lynns point is more to the issue of the killers attire, obviously not easy to conceal anything if the killer was getting undressed with Mary. If he was fully dressed and she wasnt, then there is controversy. He is either there with her good graces while she is undressed, or he broke into the room and got to her before she was able to react to someone in the room.

Either scenario is obviously not trawling for street whores.

I hope that is an acceptable interpretation of your concerns Lynn.

Best regards

[Michael W Richards]

Hello Lynn,

Maybe we can kill two birds with one stone here (yes, pun intended). He asks Mary to build a fire. While her back is turned, he takes the knife and hides it under the bed. Now we have a solution to why the fire was lit and how he concealed the knife.

c.d.

I have a theory about that fire cd, and the spout, and the washtub seen under Marys bed, and the fact Maria spends the entire afternoon with Mary in her room, and the fact that cleaned laundry was found folded in the room, and the fact that Maria gives Mary a few coins before she leaves....I believe its possible that they spent that last afternoon washing Maria's clients clothes...repeated heating of warm water melted the solder and the spout came off. My guess is that Mary need only stoke the ashes with some fire source when she got home just before 12 and she would have some fire again.

Mary has the pump right outside her window, it seems like a great location for a laundress to get some washing done.

Remember the clothes neatly folded, not Marys, but Maria's clients.

Just a thought.

Cheers