A Theory -The access to Mary Kelly

[lynn cates]

their eyes

Hello Jon. Thanks.

Agreed about seeing the knife. My point was, if "MJK" brought someone in, try to imagine the unfolding scene through their eyes. She is disrobing, folding her clothes, etc. Ascribe a time for that. Now look through her eyes. This chap is still in his coat he's standing almost stock still for X time.

What is "MJK" thinking all this time? Is his behaviour ordinary?

Cheers.
LC

[Abby Normal]

Sound reasoning Jon. Except...

Alternatively, Kelly 'entertained' Blotchy - I agree with the points that you make regarding her state of dress - and after he left, simply went to sleep in a drunken stupor.

How likely is it that she'd have got up again, got dressed, and then gone to bed?

For my money, either Blotchy was her killer, she let somebody in after he'd gone, or somebody let themselves in whilst she slept. The defensive wounds on her arms (assuming that they are in fact such) rather suggests the latter.

Hi Sally
well said. i totally agree.

[Abby Normal]

The fact Kelly was dressed in a chemise on what we believe to be a cool night, in a room with two broken windows, strongly suggests to me she was not alone. Kelly was dressed to entertain.
Mrs Prater, like Cox, like Lewis & Kennedy, apparently all slept with their day clothes on, very possibly the normal state of dress for all those near destitute and not able to waste money on keeping a fire going all night.
When you're alone you make do, but if you are entertaining you make an effort, you make exceptions.

The state of her clothes, apparently orderly, and her dress (chemise) indicate to me she had a man with her, a client, in her last moments.
If she had been found fully clothed, like Prater, Cox, etc. then it 'could' be argued an intruder broke in, but not in the sate she was actually found.

Her killer was a client, he was invited in.

Regards, Jon S.

Hi Wicker
I pretty much agree. But there is still a good possibility that that client left after sex, mary was asleep/passed out with most clothes still off (and she did have a fire going for some warmth), and her killer, who knew her and her situation, snuck in.

[Wickerman]

Hello Jon.

"Her killer was a client, he was invited in."

Very well. But consider this. He must have been fully clothed and concealing a knife. Are we to imagine that he was merely standing there whilst she disrobed, folded her clothing, etc. without making any movements towards her nor revealing his knife?

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn.

There was mention of of ecchymosis in the skin around her throat, possibly consistent with her being strangled. I would guess Kelly never saw the knife, likewise like the others, neither Nichols, Chapman nor Eddowes saw a knife.
Whether Kelly's arms did indeed show defensive wounds is debatable, but even her coming too after a failed attempt at strangulation is also possible.

Regards, Jon S.

[Wickerman]

Sound reasoning Jon. Except...

Alternatively, Kelly 'entertained' Blotchy - I agree with the points that you make regarding her state of dress - and after he left, simply went to sleep in a drunken stupor.

Hi Sally.
Thats an assumption though. She may have gone back to sleep the way she was, but equally she may have gone out again, both are equally possible.

How likely is it that she'd have got up again, got dressed, and then gone to bed?

I would say, got up again, got dressed, went out, and then returned with another client, who killed her.
That, is likely, given her state of arrears and, given the fact Cox also found it necessary to go out repeatedly. We remember Kelly's room was both dark and quiet at around 1:20 am, according to Mrs Prater. No singing, no talking, no sound of movement, so at this time she was either sound asleep, had returned to the streets, or was already dead.

For my money, either Blotchy was her killer, she let somebody in after he'd gone, or somebody let themselves in whilst she slept. The defensive wounds on her arms (assuming that they are in fact such) rather suggests the latter.

When we choose to ignore the quite reasonable alternative that she needed to get more money, so returned to the streets, we are also required to ignore the two witnesses who said they saw her out after 1:30 am, - Hutch & Kennedy, and also include Lewis who saw a man watching a couple pass up the court.

The so-called simple solution requires the support of a series of complex, mostly invented, proposals aimed at dismissing or discrediting the words of three independent witnesses, all of which is necessary to support this assumed to be, 'simple solution'.

There is no balance to that argument, the negatives (what we must ignore) far outweigh the positives (a simple intruder theory).

Regards, Jon S.

[lynn cates]

Generally speaking

Hello Colin. Thanks.

General Frank Millen was an agent of Sir Ed. He may have been involved in HM Government's 1887 dynamite plot. His description coincides with A-man's description--as does "Red" Jim McDermott (another of Sir Ed's agents) with Blotchy.

Cheers.
LC

[Bridewell]

Millen

Agreed. And now that Simon has almost conclusively shown Millen out of town at the time, these uncorroborated sightings may be mere descriptions.

Forgive my ignorance, Lynn, but who's Millen?

[lynn cates]

Blotchy and A-Man

Hello Richard. Thanks.

"If Mary was killed by the Ripper, it goes against the grain to suggest, that he kept his patience long enough for a Victorian woman to disrobe."

Quite. To say nothing of a 75 minute serenade.

"It surely is not likely that Mr A, or indeed Blotchy would have been the Ripper."

Agreed. And now that Simon has almost conclusively shown Millen out of town at the time, these uncorroborated sightings may be mere descriptions. They sound almost like they have been pulled from the files.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

relativity

Hello Sally.

Relatively speaking, yes. (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

[richardnunweek]

Hello Lynn,
If Mary was killed by the Ripper, it goes against the grain to suggest, that he kept his patience long enough for a Victorian woman to disrobe.
Two possibilities arise.
a] she was attacked by someone sneaking into her room during the night
b] she was attacked by someone she invited in daylight hours, and had time to disrobe before he entered the room.
It surely is not likely that Mr A, or indeed Blotchy would have been the Ripper, if so their blood lust showed remarkable control.
I prefer Scenario B
Regards Richard.

[Sally]

Hello Sally.

"Kelly 'entertained' Blotchy"

You mean by singing?

Cheers.
LC

Well perhaps, Lynn.

Wasn't she supposed to have a relative on the stage?

[lynn cates]

violet offender

Hello Sally.

"Kelly 'entertained' Blotchy"

You mean by singing?

Cheers.
LC

[curious]

What I see, Curious, is an offender whose sexual impulses were so perverted that he could attain gratification only by acts of extreme violence against women.


Murder certainly, Curious. But butchery? The following extract of my book might be worth thinking about:-

‘But it is the latter-day serialist who places the Ripper’s exploits in their truest light, medically untrained killers like Ed Gein who beheaded victims as well as removing internal organs and large areas of skin. Jeffrey Dahmer, Albert Fish, Dennis Nilsen, Andrei Chikatilo, Fritz Haarman, Karl Denke and Joachim Kroll each fall into a similar category, representing an arbitrary sample of non-medico murderers who have exhibited tremendous dexterity in dismemberment and organ removal. In addition to performing these same ritualistic acts, Ed Kemper learned from experience that, by slicing through a victim’s Achilles tendons, he could stave off crural rigor mortis – a process which, if left unchecked, severely inhibits necrophilic activity. And when in 1959 Birmingham police were alerted to the murder of Stephanie Baird, they became convinced that the man responsible had undergone medical training, a view endorsed by Dr Francis Camps after he had examined the body. Apart from being decapitated, Stephanie had been mutilated in a manner that stirred echoes of Mary Kelly. This prompted investigators to interview four thousand butchers as well as hundreds of medical students. These inquiries led nowhere. Then, quite by chance, the murderer was apprehended. He turned out to be Patrick Byrne, a twenty-eight year old Dubliner of below average intelligence who earned his living as a building site labourer.’

In other words ordinary men without training in butchery or surgical procedures are perfectly capable of inflicting the most appalling of injuries on their victims as part of the fantasy which motivates and perpetuates their crimes.

very enlightening. Thank you.

[lynn cates]

knife

Hello Jon.

"Her killer was a client, he was invited in."

Very well. But consider this. He must have been fully clothed and concealing a knife. Are we to imagine that he was merely standing there whilst she disrobed, folded her clothing, etc. without making any movements towards her nor revealing his knife?

Cheers.
LC

[Sally]

The fact Kelly was dressed in a chemise on what we believe to be a cool night, in a room with two broken windows, strongly suggests to me she was not alone. Kelly was dressed to entertain.
Mrs Prater, like Cox, like Lewis & Kennedy, apparently all slept with their day clothes on, very possibly the normal state of dress for all those near destitute and not able to waste money on keeping a fire going all night.
When you're alone you make do, but if you are entertaining you make an effort, you make exceptions.

The state of her clothes, apparently orderly, and her dress (chemise) indicate to me she had a man with her, a client, in her last moments.
If she had been found fully clothed, like Prater, Cox, etc. then it 'could' be argued an intruder broke in, but not in the sate she was actually found.

Her killer was a client, he was invited in.

Regards, Jon S.

Sound reasoning Jon. Except...

Alternatively, Kelly 'entertained' Blotchy - I agree with the points that you make regarding her state of dress - and after he left, simply went to sleep in a drunken stupor.

How likely is it that she'd have got up again, got dressed, and then gone to bed?

For my money, either Blotchy was her killer, she let somebody in after he'd gone, or somebody let themselves in whilst she slept. The defensive wounds on her arms (assuming that they are in fact such) rather suggests the latter.