A new front in the history wars? A new article on 'the five'

[rjpalmer]

It's odd that the author doesn't mention Phil Sugden:

a university trained academic who wrote extensively, and I would suggest sensitively, about the victim's lives.

The reader is almost left with the impression that such persons don't exist, even though many who frequent these forums cut their teeth on his work.

I refer to Bleakley, not Rubenhold.

[jmenges]

In the new podcast of her talk for the Edinburgh International Book Festival she says
“NONE of the Ripperologists can really agree on ANYTHING. The ONE thing that they do agree on is that Jack the Ripper killed prostitutes.”

Either her ignorance of Ripperology is astounding, or she’s pulling a con.
Whichever...that she’s given these platforms to spew such nonsense is amazing.

JM

[erobitha]

It’s her “war” with Ripperologists that the public finds interesting. That’s why she used the controversy (that she largely manufactured) to sell her book. Her Twitter feed is full of people who brag about buying ‘The Five’ solely as a show of support. Id suggest what she proposes in her book isn’t what those people are interested in, they look at the book as a membership badge.

JM

She created a psedudo-feminist agenda where she now becomes the victim of the nasty mysoginists who are foul-mouthed amateurs with dark motives and even darker thoughts. It has done her books sales wonders. She has created a world where by buying her book you are showing solidarity to her cause. You are helping break the male patriachy stronghold on Ripper research and give those sleeping women (who apparently were not soliciting at the the time of their deaths) the feminist recognition and voice they deserve.

It's horrendous what happened to those women and their names and lives have never been forgotten by those who frequent these forums. It's disheartening that a very qualified historian such as HR has decided to take such a cynical path to selling her books.

[Observer]

This is John’s Hill. I imagine the houses on the E side of Breezer’s would have looked like these.

Never saw that one before, great photo.

[rjpalmer]

I wasn't the least bit offended by Bleakley, but, for the record, here is the first sentence in the old post of mine that he quoted:

"I liked the "feminist approach" of Walkowitz and Caputi in discussing the murders, and found their books valuable." (Casebook, 2-22-2019)

Hardly the attitude of an anti-feminist.

Yet, without diminishing their work, isn't it possible to argue that when it comes to grinding poverty in Victorian London, class distinctions were a far more prevalent and relevant burden than gender distinctions?

I don't think very many people would want to argue that a male cockney born in a Shadwell slum had advantages over a fashionable lady in the West End.

I suppose because I am a male, I tend to see socioeconomic issues more in terms of "class" rather than in terms of gender, though I can appreciate that women and children were at the lowest end of the heap--but only barely.

Looking at social issues strictly through the lens of "gender" can reveal, but they can also conceal.

What are we going to do with this bloke? Can a male be a victim of a "patriarchal" society? Or do we need a new term?

Guy Linton. Died in Hanbury Street in the 1880s for lack of food and shelter. Yet he was an actor and dreamed the same golden dreams that you and I dream.

[MrBarnett]

This is John’s Hill. I imagine the houses on the E side of Breezer’s would have looked like these.

[MrBarnett]

There's a photo of number 47, which I believe was between Chigwell, and George Yard. Here's the link

http://www.herberthistory.co.uk/cgi-...278&id=herbhis

Yes, I’ve seen that. Great photos.

[MrBarnett]

Right yes I see what you mean now. The Prince Regent is number 8, so the Corner of Breezers Hill was number 1?

Yes, the White Bear on the NE corner was 1, George Street(Highway). On the other corner there had been a sugar refinery which was replaced by Gooch and Cousens wool warehouse which is still there.

[Observer]

There's a photo of number 47, which I believe was between Chigwell, and George Yard. Here's the link

http://www.herberthistory.co.uk/cgi-bin/sitewise.pl?act=det&pt=&p=278&id=herbhis

[Observer]

It does. There were 4 ‘hills’ running between The Highway and Pennington Street, W-E: Breezer’s, Artichoke, John’s and Chigwell.

Right yes I see what you mean now. The Prince Regent is number 8, so the Corner of Breezers Hill was number 1?

[MrBarnett]

Right, I was under the impression that Breezers Hill turned off St George Street.

It does. There were 4 ‘hills’ running between The Highway and Pennington Street, W-E: Breezer’s, Artichoke, John’s and Chigwell.

[Observer]

Yes, that’s the photo I had in mind. The turning you refer to is into Artichoke Hill. Breezers Hill was behind the photographer.

Charles Lechmere’s mum’s cats meat shop was on the corner of Artichoke Hill.

Right, I was under the impression that Breezers Hill turned off St George Street.

[MrBarnett]

Here's a link Mr B.

https://pubwiki.co.uk/LondonPubs/StGeorgeEast/PrinceRegentTavern.shtml

By my reckoning, isn't that the turning into Breezers Hill in the distance, just where the woman in the white apron is standing far left of photo?

Yes, that’s the photo I had in mind. The turning you refer to is into Artichoke Hill. Breezers Hill was behind the photographer.

Charles Lechmere’s mum’s cats meat shop was on the corner of Artichoke Hill.

[Observer]

Hold on, are you saying that Breezers Hill was situated, before St Georges Street began?

[Observer]

I think I know the photo you mean - there are a couple of very small people in the right foreground?

Breezers Hill is just out of shot, unfortunately. There is a photo of the White Bear at 1, St George Street, which was on the Breezers Hill corner, but that’s about it as far as I know.

I’m also interested in the Ratcliffe Highway murders.

Here's a link Mr B.

https://pubwiki.co.uk/LondonPubs/StGeorgeEast/PrinceRegentTavern.shtml

By my reckoning, isn't that the turning into Breezers Hill in the distance, just where the woman in the white apron is standing far left of photo?