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  • #16
    Originally posted by harry View Post
    An interest is that I might have known and met him or passed him in the street.Quite possible ,as age,his old, mine young might have provided this possibility.
    Over on JTRForums I made the comment that I had personally spoken to someone who was present at one of the murders and the response was, ‘Was his name Methuselah?’

    Well, no, his name was Charles Humphries and as a 6-year-old he was living in GYB in August, 1888. He lived into his 80s and I chatted with him in the 1960s. He was my grandad.

    I love the fact that after his father died in 1890, his widowed mother moved with her two sons to nearby Angel Alley. And that he went on to marry a girl from Breezers Hill.

    1888 wasn’t all that long ago...




    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by MrBarnett View Post

      Over on JTRForums I made the comment that I had personally spoken to someone who was present at one of the murders and the response was, ‘Was his name Methuselah?’

      Well, no, his name was Charles Humphries and as a 6-year-old he was living in GYB in August, 1888. He lived into his 80s and I chatted with him in the 1960s. He was my grandad.

      I love the fact that after his father died in 1890, his widowed mother moved with her two sons to nearby Angel Alley. And that he went on to marry a girl from Breezers Hill.

      1888 wasn’t all that long ago...



      That’s true. We’re not that far past the time when there were people alive who were around at the time. If your grandad had lived until 100 that would have taken us into the 1980’s.

      One of the tantalising and frustrating things about the case is how people 90 or 100 years didn’t realise how huge the interest in this case would continue to be. All of the stories and rumours that might have been written down. Perhaps an important witness who never came forward at the time? Then there’s the frustration of the photographs. Whenever I see that famous photograph of the passage into Miller’s Court I can’t help thinking “why didn’t you go into the court and take a couple of photographs?” Whenever I see a Victorian London street scene I’m thinking “that bloke smoking a pipe might be Thomas Bowyer or that woman at the market stall could be Mrs Fiddymont.” Thats history....fascinating and frustrating.
      Regards

      Herlock




      “...A yellow fog swirls past the window-pane
      As night descends upon this fabled street:
      A lonely hansom splashes through the rain,
      The ghostly gas lamps fail at twenty feet.
      Here, though the world explode, these two survive,
      And it is always eighteen ninety-five.”

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

        That’s true. We’re not that far past the time when there were people alive who were around at the time. If your grandad had lived until 100 that would have taken us into the 1980’s.

        One of the tantalising and frustrating things about the case is how people 90 or 100 years didn’t realise how huge the interest in this case would continue to be. All of the stories and rumours that might have been written down. Perhaps an important witness who never came forward at the time? Then there’s the frustration of the photographs. Whenever I see that famous photograph of the passage into Miller’s Court I can’t help thinking “why didn’t you go into the court and take a couple of photographs?” Whenever I see a Victorian London street scene I’m thinking “that bloke smoking a pipe might be Thomas Bowyer or that woman at the market stall could be Mrs Fiddymont.” Thats history....fascinating and frustrating.
        I always had this regret with my grandparents. When I was younger I always took their stories about their childhood or living through the war for granted. Now I would give my eye teeth to speak and listen to them. I can completely related with what you are saying about the case. I am sure there have been hundreds of bit of crucial evidence, stuck in some attic or a draw somewhere that have now been thrown away by someone clearing out the house of a deceased relative.

        Tristan
        Best Regards,

        Tristan

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Losmandris View Post

          I always had this regret with my grandparents. When I was younger I always took their stories about their childhood or living through the war for granted. Now I would give my eye teeth to speak and listen to them. I can completely related with what you are saying about the case. I am sure there have been hundreds of bit of crucial evidence, stuck in some attic or a draw somewhere that have now been thrown away by someone clearing out the house of a deceased relative.

          Tristan
          Absolutely Tristan. Who knows there might even be a real Diary of Jack the Ripper out there somewhere

          Regards

          Herlock




          “...A yellow fog swirls past the window-pane
          As night descends upon this fabled street:
          A lonely hansom splashes through the rain,
          The ghostly gas lamps fail at twenty feet.
          Here, though the world explode, these two survive,
          And it is always eighteen ninety-five.”

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

            That’s true. We’re not that far past the time when there were people alive who were around at the time. If your grandad had lived until 100 that would have taken us into the 1980’s.

            One of the tantalising and frustrating things about the case is how people 90 or 100 years didn’t realise how huge the interest in this case would continue to be. All of the stories and rumours that might have been written down. Perhaps an important witness who never came forward at the time? Then there’s the frustration of the photographs. Whenever I see that famous photograph of the passage into Miller’s Court I can’t help thinking “why didn’t you go into the court and take a couple of photographs?” Whenever I see a Victorian London street scene I’m thinking “that bloke smoking a pipe might be Thomas Bowyer or that woman at the market stall could be Mrs Fiddymont.” Thats history....fascinating and frustrating.
            Very good points Herlock indeed lots of missed chances with elderly east end residents!! Why oh why didn’t Mr Matters ask for theMillers Court name plate!!!?? Regards the Millers Court images think he was spooked by an elderly abusive resident but he did return days later to a vast pile of rubble!! It is annoying more images of Millers Court & Berner Street don’t exist but guess there wasn’t the interest 1900-1928 so thankful for what we have!!

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Christian View Post

              Very good points Herlock indeed lots of missed chances with elderly east end residents!! Why oh why didn’t Mr Matters ask for theMillers Court name plate!!!?? Regards the Millers Court images think he was spooked by an elderly abusive resident but he did return days later to a vast pile of rubble!! It is annoying more images of Millers Court & Berner Street don’t exist but guess there wasn’t the interest 1900-1928 so thankful for what we have!!
              I recall the story of the old woman Christian. Didn't he call her a slattern or a slatternly old woman? It's a word that we don't use today. Still loads of great photos of course. You've posted many of them.
              Regards

              Herlock




              “...A yellow fog swirls past the window-pane
              As night descends upon this fabled street:
              A lonely hansom splashes through the rain,
              The ghostly gas lamps fail at twenty feet.
              Here, though the world explode, these two survive,
              And it is always eighteen ninety-five.”

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

                I recall the story of the old woman Christian. Didn't he call her a slattern or a slatternly old woman? It's a word that we don't use today. Still loads of great photos of course. You've posted many of them.
                Yes the old hag quoted that correct Herlock!!Yes I have posted a few nice images but I have an album 200+of images I’ve collected over last 30 years a lot I have not shared!!

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Christian View Post

                  Yes the old hag quoted that correct Herlock!!Yes I have posted a few nice images but I have an album 200+of images I’ve collected over last 30 years a lot I have not shared!!
                  Regards

                  Herlock




                  “...A yellow fog swirls past the window-pane
                  As night descends upon this fabled street:
                  A lonely hansom splashes through the rain,
                  The ghostly gas lamps fail at twenty feet.
                  Here, though the world explode, these two survive,
                  And it is always eighteen ninety-five.”

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

                    I recall the story of the old woman Christian. Didn't he call her a slattern or a slatternly old woman? It's a word that we don't use today. Still loads of great photos of course. You've posted many of them.
                    The Star, Sep 11:

                    A NIGHT IN WHITECHAPEL.

                    A representative of the Central News patrolled the streets and alleys of Whitechapel during last night and the early hours of this morning. The scare (he writes) has considerably subsided. People have become familiar with the tragedy, and are calmed by the knowledge of the active measures adopted for their protection by the police. This is plainly evidenced by the aspect which Whitechapel-road presented last night and up to an early hour of the morning. On Sunday night the pavements were almost deserted. Twenty-four hours later groups of men and women chatted, joked, and boisterously laughed upon the flagstones until long after St. Mary's clock struck one. "Leather Apron" has already become a by-word of the pavement and gutter. Many members of the police force firmly believe in the existence and

                    ALMOST CERTAIN GUILT of "Leather Apron." The talk of the footways convinces the passer-by that the inhabitants of the East-end are sceptical as to his personality. There was the usual percentage of gaudily dressed, loudmouthed, and vulgar women strutting or standing at the brightly-lighted cross-ways last night, and the still larger proportion of miserable, half-fed, dejected creatures of the same sex upon which hard life, unhealthy habits, and bad spirits have set their stamp. Soon after one o'clock the better-dressed members of the motley company disappeared, but the poverty-stricken drabs crawled about from lamp to lamp, or from one dark alley's mouth to another, until faint signs of dawn appeared. Off the main road - in such thoroughfares as Commercial-street and Brick-lane - there was little to attract attention. Constables passed silently by the knots of homeless vagabonds huddled in the recess of some big doorway; other constables, whose "plain clothes" could not prevent their

                    STALWART, WELL-DRILLED FIGURES from betraying their calling, paraded in couples, now and again emerging from some dimly lighted lane, and passing their uniformed comrades with an air of conscious ignorance. The streets inclusively referred to by the constables on beat duty in the main thoroughfare as "round at the back" presented a dismal appearance indeed, the dim yellow flames of the not too numerous lamps only rendering the darkness of night more gloomy. Such passages as Edward-street, connecting Hanbury and Princes-streets, Flower and Dean-street, between Brick-lane and Commercial-street, which, in daylight only strike one as very unwholesome and dirty thoroughfares, appear unutterably forlorn and dismal in the darkness of night. From an alley in one of these, leading to uninviting recesses, a miserable specimen of a man - hollow-chested, haggard, and dirty - shuffled hurriedly into the wider street and, crossing to the opposite pavement, dived into another recess and was instantly lost to view. No constable would have thought of interfering with him had he met him, nor would there have been any excuse for accosting him; and yet his ragged clothes, of some dark hue, might have been saturated with blood, invisible in the depressing yellow shade of the flickering gas jets. In any one of these dark and filthy passages a human being's life

                    MIGHT BE EVERY NIGHT SACRIFICED were the blow dealt with the terrible suddenness and precision which characterised those of the two last homicides, and a police force of double the strength of that now employed and organised under the best possible conditions, might well be baffled in its efforts to capture the slayers. In the immediate neighborhood of St. Mary's Church a wide entry presented a deep cavern of Stygian blackness, into which no lamp shone, and where, for aught a passer-by at that hour could discover, a corpse might lie, and from which - such is its position - a murderer might, if possessed of coolness, easily pass unobserved. In a squalid thoroughfare between Hanbury-street and Whitechapel-road some houses have apparently been pulled down, the space being now waste ground enclosed by wooden pailings. This unilluminated spot is separated by a house or two from an alley which, at a point some yards from the street, turns at right angles apparently towards the unoccupied space mentioned. Into the mouth of this passage, a slatternly woman, her face half hidden in a shawl which formed her only head dress, thrust her head, and in a shrill and angry voice shrieked "Tuppy!" The cry was answered in a few seconds by the appearance of an evil-looking man, with a ragged black beard, who, in reply to an impatient question of

                    "WHERE IS SHE?" muttered in a surly tone, "Round there," at the same time jerking his thumb backwards towards the alley. "Well, come 'long 'ome, then. I aint agoin' to wait for she," replied the woman, who, with the dark man limping after her, soon disappeared round the corner of the street. There was no subsequent indication of the presence of a third person. The light from the street was so dim that there was no possibility of recognising the features of the man and woman; and certainly either might have borne traces of crime which would have attracted no attention.
                    Andrew's the man, that is not blamed for nothing

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      I blame Arthur Conan Doyle! It was reading Sherlock Holmes stories as a young lad that got me interested in the LVP and it wasn't too long before I discovered the Whitechapel Murders.

                      I went through a spell in my youth of buying "suspect books" on JTR but quickly discovered there were many candidates for the murderer; almost as many suspects as there were books. I have no pet candidate myself; I don't think there will ever be any definitive proof. That's why I like this forum; every time a suspect is put forward I think "yup, that's a good case" until someone else comes along a few minutes later with the "but". Then you need to reappraise your initial conclusion.

                      I'm not sure there is much more to learn from the crimes themselves so my interest became more focused on the area, the times, the people and (don't tell Rubenhold because we don't care about them), the victims - particularly MJK who is a total enigma.

                      The old photograph thread interests me greatly and some of the CGI reconstructions on here are really amazing.

                      I have learnt more from the esteemed contributors to this forum than I ever did from dozens of books for which I thank you all.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        I love unsolved mysteries and have loved them since childhood. As a kid I had a book titled something like "101 greatest mysteries of all time" and that is where I first read about Jack the Ripper, alongside Jimmy Hoffa, the Loch Ness Monster, the Nazca Lines, and other such things. As for why I am more fascinated with Jack the Ripper than with other serial killers, it's probably because he was the "granddaddy of them all", the first modern serial killer, the forerunner of all the unsolved killings that came later.

                        Though the more I learn about the Ripper, the less I think of him that way. He's really nothing like most 20th century serial killers, in large part because the automobile completely transformed serial killing.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Damaso Marte View Post
                          He's really nothing like most 20th century serial killers, in large part because the automobile completely transformed serial killing.
                          I have to politely disagree old chap. He is exactly like many modern day serial killers and it is the fact we know much more about them from a psychological and behavioural context that we are able to retrospectively look at the murders in a way that the police of the time were simply unable to do. The point about the car is merely a transport one really and the police procedural challenges regarding state / judicial boundaries. Psychological and behavioural similarities are uncanny to modern day serial killers regardless of which police force is investigating which crime.
                          "When the legend becomes fact... print the legend"
                          - The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance (1962)

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by erobitha View Post

                            I have to politely disagree old chap. He is exactly like many modern day serial killers and it is the fact we know much more about them from a psychological and behavioural context that we are able to retrospectively look at the murders in a way that the police of the time were simply unable to do. The point about the car is merely a transport one really and the police procedural challenges regarding state / judicial boundaries. Psychological and behavioural similarities are uncanny to modern day serial killers regardless of which police force is investigating which crime.
                            Sure, under the hood humans are the same today as they were in 1888, but cars have been a game-changer for killers. Not only do they allow killers to hunt for victims in a much larger area, but they allow the killer to take the victim to a second location to be killed and a third (or more) location to be disposed of. No modern serial killer picks up victims on the street, kills them on the street, and leaves their body on the street.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Damaso Marte View Post

                              Sure, under the hood humans are the same today as they were in 1888, but cars have been a game-changer for killers. Not only do they allow killers to hunt for victims in a much larger area, but they allow the killer to take the victim to a second location to be killed and a third (or more) location to be disposed of. No modern serial killer picks up victims on the street, kills them on the street, and leaves their body on the street.
                              Also social media. People can be stalked online.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                I guess the seed was planted for me when I was 11. My older Sister moved out of our house and let me pick through her books. I picked a JTR one, though for the life of me I don't know who by. As I got older, I found more books and became as much as anything interested in the era at University. I would say that interest has over-taken the case, though I do enjoy reading people's different theories on the subject and who the killer is. Ultimately I have no idea who it was though I lean to some over others.

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