Is there a 'final solution' holy grail for the JTR murders out there?

[Scott Nelson]

Obviously, once the "message" that is pointed to cannot be agreed upon by those who look at it as being a real message, the holy grail is not very close at hand. Its only when more or less everybody agrees that a message HAS been left by the killer that we should accept that we've in all probability bagged the grail. And I don't categorically rule out that this may happen, since I genuinely think that there is a very large chance that the killer we are chasing was a person who wanted recognition for what he did.

I agree with you Christer, except for the part about wanting recognition for what he did. Maybe, maybe not.

[TheCuriousCat]

Ho hum

Stunning rebuttal. Well put.

[Fisherman]

Obviously, once the "message" that is pointed to cannot be agreed upon by those who look at it as being a real message, the holy grail is not very close at hand. Its only when more or less everybody agrees that a message HAS been left by the killer that we should accept that we've in all probability bagged the grail. And I don't categorically rule out that this may happen, since I genuinely think that there is a very large chance that the killer we are chasing was a person who wanted recognition for what he did.

[Spider]

Ho hum

[TheCuriousCat]

Absolutely agree with you on that, but we're not talking the 'Bible Code' here, we're looking at short letters here, some with very little text and a very simple code base. The letters sent by Maybrick total around 18 and contain over 100 clues, some very simple others slightly more ingenious. The letters were little more than vehicles for his clues, those odd turns of phrase which now make sense. I think that most with some intellect will get it but probably not your average bears.

I love codes. Let me show you my own little codes.

"The problem is that too many people readily dismiss it without having read it, let alone looked closely at it."

"I think that most with some intellect will get it but probably not your average bears."

= Ad hominem = Not a valid argument = Safe to dismiss without further investigation.

"...very simple code base...others slightly more ingenious"

= Internally inconsistent = Safe to dismiss without further investigation.

[TheCuriousCat]

Yes! -- But what I was saying is that the 'search for the Ripper' would stop, but the books on 'disproving the evidence' would sell. -- And of course books on the now exposed killer would sell quite well, as well. But new theories and new suspects would disappear, those books would no longer sell; the direction of the research would be altered, forced by public opinion. Maybe not good thing, but it (slam dunk evidence) would dominate in such a manner that it would change the Ripper Universe.


I.e. the books on Watergate now, are of a different ilk than they were before Felt outed himself. A new direction of research; that's why they still sell.

I see what you are saying. Yes, it would definitely change things.

[APerno]

We know who Deep Throat is now. People still buy books on Watergate.

Yes! -- But what I was saying is that the 'search for the Ripper' would stop, but the books on 'disproving the evidence' would sell. -- And of course books on the now exposed killer would sell quite well, as well. But new theories and new suspects would disappear, those books would no longer sell; the direction of the research would be altered, forced by public opinion. Maybe not good thing, but it (slam dunk evidence) would dominate in such a manner that it would change the Ripper Universe.


I.e. the books on Watergate now, are of a different ilk than they were before Felt outed himself. A new direction of research; that's why they still sell.

[Spider]

If you take any sufficiently long piece of writing, and apply various, unpredictable rules for "decoding" it, you can convince yourself that it says whatever you want it to. That's why people are continually saying Nostradamus predicted everything from Pearl Harbor, to the Twin Towers, to Princess Diana. And that is why they will never cease finding predictions of things to come in the future. You need to apply a little common sense. Ask yourself, "What would count as a strike against this hypothesis?" Or "Is this method capable of self-correction?" If you went through my journals with the same methods, looking for evidence that I was JTR, you would undoubtedly find it.
"Oh look, he was thrilled to get his first pen knife! He bought a book on anatomy! He even wrote a report on the kidney for biology class! He has an interest in Time Travel! It is him!"

Absolutely agree with you on that, but we're not talking the 'Bible Code' here, we're looking at short letters here, some with very little text and a very simple code base. The letters sent by Maybrick total around 18 and contain over 100 clues, some very simple others slightly more ingenious. The letters were little more than vehicles for his clues, those odd turns of phrase which now make sense. I think that most with some intellect will get it but probably not your average bears.

[Christian]

I can recall from many moons ago one researcher believing that he’d found a photograph of Kosminski. Turned out that he hadn’t though. The Chapman photo surfaced so I guess that it’s not impossible that photos of the other victims in life exist somewhere. I’ve always though it tantalising that, amongst someone’s collection of old photographs, they might be looking at a photograph of Mary Nichols or Martha Tabram without knowing it.

Yes Herlock we can dream also years ago was a “millers court “ photo album from 1888 said to exist be in collectors hands & the plans-sketch for millers court was said to be done by city police as with mitre square we can live in hope

[TheCuriousCat]

Yes, but if the general public should ever reach such a consensus, interest in searching for the Ripper will dry up. Books sales will plummet and the money will disappear as well. Ripperology will be reduced to an Ancient Aliens level of credibility.

Those that refuse to accept the slam dunk evidence will be force to form a conspiracy theory against the the 'indisputable' evidence. The Ripper Universe will move from searching for the killer to disproving the 'evidence.' That could go on for decades.

We know who Deep Throat is now. People still buy books on Watergate.

[TheCuriousCat]

"I'm pretty sure he would agree with me that playing games with letters likely to be hoaxes would be worthy of barely a taste."

BUT, what if? This is the problem with JTR, every stone should be turned over, everything followed up. How many people have actually looked at the letters? Relatively few because so called 'experts' say there is nothing in them, and the sheep follow.
The 'Diarist' or hoaxer says he is sending clues, but has anyone looked? Well either the hoaxer was very lucky, or the Diary is contemporary.

If you take any sufficiently long piece of writing, and apply various, unpredictable rules for "decoding" it, you can convince yourself that it says whatever you want it to. That's why people are continually saying Nostradamus predicted everything from Pearl Harbor, to the Twin Towers, to Princess Diana. And that is why they will never cease finding predictions of things to come in the future. You need to apply a little common sense. Ask yourself, "What would count as a strike against this hypothesis?" Or "Is this method capable of self-correction?" If you went through my journals with the same methods, looking for evidence that I was JTR, you would undoubtedly find it.
"Oh look, he was thrilled to get his first pen knife! He bought a book on anatomy! He even wrote a report on the kidney for biology class! He has an interest in Time Travel! It is him!"

[Spider]

Hi Spider,

I am a little confused, are you an advocate of the Maybrick Diary being authentic or the tangent argument laid out by Bruce Robinson, in They All Love Jack?

I can't grasp from the cover which argument Time Reveals All - The Funny Little Games of Jack the Ripper: Cryptic Clues in the Jack the Ripper Letters is trying to make. Is it that the Diary is authentic, of is it based on the Robinson argument regarding Michael Maybrick?

"Tempus Omnia Revelat" - 'Time Reveals All' - granted by the ancient College of Arms in London as James Maybrick's armorial coat of arms. "Funny Little Games" one of the Diarists favoured quotes (and not just referring to his murderous deeds it appears).
The book is not based solely on the Diary, that gave the catalyst name James Maybrick, but delves a bit deeper and in doing so shows indeed what a clever fellow he was!
My money is firmly on James Maybrick and his Diary - the Holy Grail and the Final Solution.

[APerno]

I am confident that if the identity of the Ripper were proven, there would still be those on this message board who would reject it.

Yes, but if the general public should ever reach such a consensus, interest in searching for the Ripper will dry up. Books sales will plummet and the money will disappear as well. Ripperology will be reduced to an Ancient Aliens level of credibility.

Those that refuse to accept the slam dunk evidence will be force to form a conspiracy theory against the the 'indisputable' evidence. The Ripper Universe will move from searching for the killer to disproving the 'evidence.' That could go on for decades.

[Spider]

"I'm pretty sure he would agree with me that playing games with letters likely to be hoaxes would be worthy of barely a taste."

BUT, what if? This is the problem with JTR, every stone should be turned over, everything followed up. How many people have actually looked at the letters? Relatively few because so called 'experts' say there is nothing in them, and the sheep follow.
The 'Diarist' or hoaxer says he is sending clues, but has anyone looked? Well either the hoaxer was very lucky, or the Diary is contemporary and written by James Maybrick.

[APerno]

As I said earlier:
"Perhaps we already have it, 'don't look a gift horse in the mouth' as they say. The problem is that too many people readily dismiss it without having read it, let alone looked closely at it. There is so much subtle information in there, far too much to have been compiled by a hoaxer."
Fortunately, some people do examine possibilities in detail. Oh well, I'll get my hat and coat and hide behind the parapet.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Time-Reveal...ywords=jack+th e+ripper&qid=1565620372&s=books&sprefi x=jack+the+ripper%2Cstripbooks%2C164&sr=1-5

Hi Spider,

I am a little confused, are you an advocate of the Maybrick Diary being authentic or the tangent argument laid out by Bruce Robinson, in They All Love Jack?

I can't grasp from the cover which argument Time Reveals All - The Funny Little Games of Jack the Ripper: Cryptic Clues in the Jack the Ripper Letters is trying to make. Is it that the Diary is authentic, of is it based on the Robinson argument regarding Michael Maybrick?