Is there a 'final solution' holy grail for the JTR murders out there?

[Abby Normal]

Reading the posts on The diary, old hoax or new? thread got me thinking whimsically:

Is there a final solution holy grail for the JTR murders out there, that can be found?

Is there any one piece of evidence that can be discovered today that would create an absolute answer to the JTR enigma?

No doubt the obvious answer is a diary or journal but it is hard to believe the killer would be so generous as to give us such an easy answer.

Putting aside the slam-dunk proof of a (an unlikely) diary or written confession coming to light, is there anything else that could be discovered today that could create a final solution?

I tried to conjure one up, this is the best I could do, and it's kind of silly:

Imagine a housing project demolition revealing, hidden in a wall, a steel locked box. In the box is a dried uterus and two brass rings. Next to the box is found a classic leather hog butcher's sheath containing work knives. A census lists the resident, at the time of the murders, as [insert name here]. [insert name here] then appears on a subsequent year's asylum roll, 1890, with an entrance date of late November 1888. [insert name here] dies in asylum in 1896, never having been released.

Is that enough? Would that end the controversy?

Is there any piece of evidence or preponderance of evidence, that can ever close this case?

Is there any longer a possible final solution to the Ripper murders, or has this become an endless game of right brain solitaire like Myst?

IMO we're not going to get a written confession; that's wishful thinking, and that hope only sets us up for more hoax diaries; so is there any other possibility we can hope for.

hi AP
I doubt well ever find anything that proves conclusively who the killer is, but I remain optimistic. But it would taking something big along the lines of what you mentioned. like a discovery in an attic containing things like a knife, belongings of victims, news paper cuttings confession etc.

for me personally though -if it was discovered that one of the viable known suspects ever wrote something in which they wrote the word juwes then that would probably be enough for me.

[Jon Guy]

I can`t think of any piece of evidence that could surface to nail the case
All we can do is analyse what details and facts we do have to create the clearest picture of events as possible

[Harry D]

It would take a miraculous piece of evidence, like an item belonging to the one of the victims. But how would you even prove it belonged to them in the first place? And even if you could prove that someone murdered one victim, there would still be too many unanswered questions to close the case.

[Sam Flynn]

I own a biography of Warren, by Colin Macdonald. Called "WARREN!" (exclamation mark included), and is subtitled "The Bond of Brotherhood", from which you can guess that it focuses heavily on his Masonic life, although his involvement in the JTR case gets a dedicated chapter.

Unfortunately, it's no longer in print. Some 2nd-hand copies seem to be available here and there, but I don't think it's ever been available on Amazon; indeed, I bought it direct from the publisher when it was published in 2007.

It's a pretty decent book as I recall and, even if it weren't, it's the only full biography of Warren that we have.




(Edit: When I said it focuses on Warren's Masonic life, I don't mean that this is a "woo-woo", Steven Knight-type book. It's a serious bio.)

[Herlock Sholmes]

I have to agree with Sam on this one. The further in time that we move away from the crimes the less likely that the final nail in the coffin will reveal itself. It’s certainly not impossible of course but I tend to think that the best that we can perhaps hope for would be new evidence to potentially strengthen existing suspects or, as Sam said, that there are new candidates nominated (preferably candidates with merit of course). Finding the real MJK would certainly be a kind of Holy Grail achievement. I’d also love to see confirmed photographs of Abberline and Kosminski. I’d love to have seen what Pearly Poll looked like too but I think it unlikely in the extreme that I ever will.

To add to my wish list here’s a call to all authors or potential authors out there. I’m sure that we’ are all looking forward to Adam Wood’s Swanson biography so isn’t it about time that we had well researched biographies on Warren, Anderson and Macnaghten? Anyone up for it?

[Sam Flynn]

Re your second point, Martyn, I'd be happy with finding the real Mary Jane Kelly; we have surprisingly detailed biographies for the other victims, but poor Mary still languishes in obscurity.

As far as the killer's concerned, I think the most we can hope for is feasible new candidates. Any conclusive physical evidence is likely to have been bulldozed into oblivion.

[mpriestnall]

Over on the t'other place, Sean Crundall suggested an optimistic note, saying we are on the "cusp of great things".

http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread.php?p=366833, though he didn't really expand upon this suggestion.

I'm also in the optimists camp and believe JTR's true identity will be revealed, but I don't believe it's likely that any concrete, definite evidence
will come to light, but one can never predict the future. With the continual availablity of new sources, through digitisation, genealogical records
coming online, etc, who knows?

The following is my holy grail of Ripperology:

1. JTR's identity.
2. MJK identity.
3. Any links between JTR and any victims.
4. Motive
5. Did anyone else have knowledge of the murders at the time: Accomplice(s), those in the authority, family.

I believe the only best evidence we are likely to get is a series of indirect evidences, a kind of too many coincidences and connections that add up to a semi-compelling weight of circumstational evidence. This is my approach towards my candidate.

Martyn

[FISHY1118]

Very thought provoking post Aperno, your scenario would come very close to the final nail in the JTR coffin . Except for one thing if i may , what if say a man and his wife who lived all alone at the address just happen to take in a lodger for a few months ,and he hid his ill gotten treasure in the wall with out their knowing ? And of course he gives a fake name at the asylum or vice versa , i dont know just thinking out loud as to the different possibilities . If this was the case would we still arguing who jtr was ?,

[GUT]

Maybe if something could be confirmed to be Macnaghten’s “Private Information”

[APerno]

Reading the posts on The diary, old hoax or new? thread got me thinking whimsically:

Is there a final solution holy grail for the JTR murders out there, that can be found?

Is there any one piece of evidence that can be discovered today that would create an absolute answer to the JTR enigma?

No doubt the obvious answer is a diary or journal but it is hard to believe the killer would be so generous as to give us such an easy answer.

Putting aside the slam-dunk proof of a (an unlikely) diary or written confession coming to light, is there anything else that could be discovered today that could create a final solution?

I tried to conjure one up, this is the best I could do, and it's kind of silly:

Imagine a housing project demolition revealing, hidden in a wall, a steel locked box. In the box is a dried uterus and two brass rings. Next to the box is found a classic leather hog butcher's sheath containing work knives. A census lists the resident, at the time of the murders, as [insert name here]. [insert name here] then appears on a subsequent year's asylum roll, 1890, with an entrance date of late November 1888. [insert name here] dies in asylum in 1896, never having been released.

Is that enough? Would that end the controversy?

Is there any piece of evidence or preponderance of evidence, that can ever close this case?

Is there any longer a possible final solution to the Ripper murders, or has this become an endless game of right brain solitaire like Myst?

IMO we're not going to get a written confession; that's wishful thinking, and that hope only sets us up for more hoax diaries; so is there any other possibility we can hope for.