Anatomical venus, Florentine venus, slashed beauty

[curious]

And if that East Ender was 30 in 1888, he could have been to an anatomical museum at a tender and impressible age.

very good point.

I was thinking the sighting would have shortly preceded the murders, so I suppose we can't possibly know that -- or even that there was any influence from these exhibits.

[mklhawley]

Thanks, Hunter,
I suspect that I never found that reply as I don't recall seeing it before.

quoting Hunter's reply: "This is not to say that such exhibits vanished from the UK. They had to go underground and were much smaller so they could stay ahead of the authorities. Side shows and herbal remedy peddlers would display wax figures of a 'suggestive' character to draw a crowd. I believe Mike's article mentions Dr. Frederick Treves visiting one of these exibits in Whitechapel Rd."

But it is still possible our fella did see one of these figures, right? Either in Whitechapel or even in New York, if you opt for an American being the murderer?

Is that what you are suggesting, Mike?

Hi Curious,

My article was to show Tumblety most likely possessed a 'professional' anatomical museum during the Civil War, and not just a weird uterus collection. There then were intriguing coincidences about Tumblety and anatomical museums at the Bowry in New York and even in San Francisco. ...and then to see that these four New York museums, which most likely had the ever popular anatomical venus, were trashed near the same time Tumblety began his 1888 London visit. It's just amazing when you think that Tumblety's name then became involved with the Ripper murders. ...and then to see Mary Kelly's murder scene was so anatomical venus like.

Tumblety aside, remember that continental Europe still had anatomical museums in 1888, so this could still involve many other suspects.

Sincerely,

Mike

[curious]

Hi Curious,

My article was to show Tumblety most likely possessed a 'professional' anatomical museum during the Civil War, and not just a weird uterus collection. There then were intriguing coincidences about Tumblety and anatomical museums at the Bowry in New York and even in San Francisco. ...and then to see that these four New York museums, which most likely had the ever popular anatomical venus, were trashed near the same time Tumblety began his 1888 London visit. It's just amazing when you think that Tumblety's name then became involved with the Ripper murders. ...and then to see Mary Kelly's murder scene was so anatomical venus like.

Tumblety aside, remember that continental Europe still had anatomical museums in 1888, so this could still involve many other suspects.

Sincerely,

Mike

Interesting, Mike. I do recall that article was about Tumblety, who is a very interesting man on many levels.

When expressed as you are looking at it, it is amazing. I had not put it together like that.

Will have to ponder on it.

Is there a single thing you consider most damning for Tumblety?

thx,

[Cogidubnus]

Jeez I certainly hadn't put together anything like that before...fascinating

Thanks

Dave

[mklhawley]

Hi Curious,

At the moment, it's that Scotland Yard Headquarters took Tumblety seriously in November 1888 for some reason. Sir Robert Anderson personally requested information on Tumblety specific to him being a Ripper suspect from Brooklyn's Chief of Police well after the Kelly murder in late November. It just doesn't make sense to me that Anderson himself would get involved with an insignificant suspect. The fact that Anderson and Swanson later in life had other suspects as their favorites is not a surprise. At the time, Anderson and Swanson believed the subsequent murders (Mackenzie and Coles) were Ripper victims, which would - at least in their mind - have cleared Tumblety.

Sincerely,

Mike

[mklhawley]

Here's an article on the January 1888 New York raiding of the anatomical museums:



Sincerely,

Mike

[mklhawley]

Here's another article:




Incidentally, this is the same Anthony Comstock that went after one of Tumblety's mentors:

“…Rather than being a simple side story to Anthony Comstock’s crusade against indecent publications… , several types of books came to his attention, according to the New York Society for the Suppression of Vice arrest records…Comstock pursued Ezra J. Reynolds, who published a version of W.C. Lispenard’s Practical Private Medical Guide renamed as the Pocket Companion. James Bryan of the fictitious Clinton Medical & Surgical Institute was targeted, as well. Only because of efforts by publishers to market such books as titillating rather than as medical information did American courts begin to rule them, in practice, to be obscene…Ezra J. Reynolds entry, ‘Report of Persons Arrested’ 1873, 21-22, container W.C. Lispenard, Practical Private Medical Guide: Adapted to the Use of Every Individual, (Male and Female,) Mostly Original, and Compilations from Eminent American and European Medical Authors (Rochester, N.Y.: Published for the Author, 1854), held at AAS; and Dr. Lispenard’s Pocket Companion, or Marriage Guide: Being a Popular Treatise on the Anatomy and Physiology of the Genital Organs, in Both Sexes, with their Uses and Abuses ( Published for the Author, 1854). The latter features a wrapper attributing the work to McGown and Kewin of Albany, N.Y., undoubtedly only one of a number of firms that produced the book on behalf of the Lispenard. The book was stereotyped and appears to have gone through multiple printings, which publishers often described as editions, although they actually used the same plates (or copies of them). This book is the 27th edition. James Bryan entry, Report of Persons Arrested, 1873, 25-26, container 1."

Sincerely,

Mike