Who is this "notorious woman"?

[Beowulf]

Would someone like to download that pic and make it appear in the thread please?

Thanks in advance

Photos

Left:M Morrell Middle: Dr. Barnardo

Will the real Jack the Ripper please stand up!

[Nemo]

TVM Beowolf

It's a strange set of whiskers isn't it?

It can't be that distinctive otherwise there would be no need for the sketch, you would just have to describe those wild sideburns

Is it a popular fashion does anyone know? - surely there's a website for facial hairstyles of the LVP somewhere

[Debra A]

Thanks Nemo and Beowulf!
I thought Barnardo was in the bag as he had the whiskers, the suit plus edging, glasses and to top it all the mealy mouth ( I know a mealy mouth is a character trait and not an actual type of mouth but I always imagine a mealy mouther to have severe, thin, pursed lips too. )
And now this Dr Morrell has all the traits too! Drat.

[Chris]

I think it's probably "Dr McMorrell" or something similar.

[Nemo]

The whiskers appear to be classic "mutton chops", apparently quite common in the Nineteenth Century

[Nemo]

The sketch is labelled the "latest" photo of the Ripper, and the article mentions that the police are in possession of the detective camera photo and are staying silent about it

I don't think the sketch is the same as the detective camera photo

[Nemo]

If this site is correct, the style is narrowed down to something called "wide chops"

http://centuryofthebeard.blogspot.co.uk/2010/04/wide-chops.html

[Beowulf]

Thanks Nemo and Beowulf!
I thought Barnardo was in the bag as he had the whiskers, the suit plus edging, glasses and to top it all the mealy mouth ( I know a mealy mouth is a character trait and not an actual type of mouth but I always imagine a mealy mouther to have severe, thin, pursed lips too. )
And now this Dr Morrell has all the traits too! Drat.

I suppose the questions to ask are (1) were either in the vicinity of the murders at the time (2) were either able to be ruled out in any way?

(3) why was the notorious woman so positive she knew this man to be JTR? I've not seen that listed, what was her idea of positive identification?

I think Morrell's forehead is too large and top hair too short to be the same.

[Debra A]

If this site is correct, the style is narrowed down to something called "wide chops"

http://centuryofthebeard.blogspot.co...ide-chops.html

Chris G mentioned once that they were called Dundreary whiskers.
They were also known as Picadilly weepers. They may have been a bit old fashioned by 88? Their popularity seems to have been between 1840-70, unless they were enjoying a revival.

[Debra A]

I suppose the questions to ask are (1) were either in the vicinity of the murders at the time (2) were either able to be ruled out in any way?

(3) why was the notorious woman so positive she knew this man to be JTR? I've not seen that listed, what was her idea of positive identification?

I think Morrell's forehead is too large and top hair too short to be the same.

I'm not sure it has to be either of them? Maybe just a man who liked those kind of whiskers and wore glasses ?
Although I still think it is probably meant to represent Barnardo and perhaps it's someone's idea of a joke? Barnardo did seem to part his hair with an axe, which JTR obviously didn't going by the picture.

Thanks for the pointer with the McMorrell name, Chris.

[Nemo]

There's a possibility that this woman is the one connected with Forbes Winslow's Ripper conference in 1889, who claimed to have seen the Ripper in a psychic vision

If it is her, then taking a photo of someone who looked like the Ripper in her vision isn't very encouraging

Also, the conference was to discuss the clues surrounding LFW's lodger suspect, G Wentworth Bellsmith, and the woman seemed to be the person putting herself forward as the one who would recognise the Ripper (I think he Forbes Winslow was trying to scare the Ripper and/or his accomplice but that's another story)

This is surprising as a Mr Callaghan was also attending the conference and he was GWB's landlord, and Forbes Winslow claimed he had seen the Ripper himself on the steps of St Pauls, so if anyone should recognise him in the future, it would be them

[Debra A]

There's a possibility that this woman is the one connected with Forbes Winslow's Ripper conference in 1889, who claimed to have seen the Ripper in a psychic vision

If it is her, then taking a photo of someone who looked like the Ripper in her vision isn't very encouraging

Also, the conference was to discuss the clues surrounding LFW's lodger suspect, G Wentworth Bellsmith, and the woman seemed to be the person putting herself forward as the one who would recognise the Ripper (I think he Forbes Winslow was trying to scare the Ripper and/or his accomplice but that's another story)

This is surprising as a Mr Callaghan was also attending the conference and he was GWB's landlord, and Forbes Winslow claimed he had seen the Ripper himself on the steps of St Pauls, so if anyone should recognise him in the future, it would be them

Hi Nemo,
You don't think this 'notorious' woman is Bella Freeman then? Interesting.
I got the impression the nototrious woman being described in this article took photographs on her 'detective camera', although the actual 'latest photograph' of the Ripper doesn't have to be from the same reported source, I agree.

[Nemo]

I'm not sure really Deb

I'm pretty sure that LFW's psychic woman is not "Murder Meg" and I don't think she is Bella Freeman either, though I'm less certain about that

I think the woman in Australia who wrote to LFW about a suspect was described as notorious, in the context that she badgered the local police with Ripper stories and was a known drunk (the police called her "Jack the Ripper")

Even though there was press interest in LFW's claims to be able to identify and catch the Ripper, I haven't seen much mention of the conference

I would also have thought the conference would be advertised and might name the psychic woman in the advert or in any article mentioning it later

[Nemo]

Here's the description of Forbes Winslow's psychic sidekick

Interestingly, an alternative article relating the same information, posted by Dave James is a combination of a mention of the woman and also a photograph of the Ripper submitted to the police. It is headlined "Portrait of Jack the Ripper produced" - "A lunatic's find" - "The work of a female detective"

this is from the Aberdeen Weekly Journal
Tuesday, September 24, 1889 posted by Howard Brown on JtRForums

After putting forward the suggestion that John Cleary, from the Pinchin St torso case, fitted a description of a man known as "Dodger" who appeared to be the accomplice of the lodger Ripper suspect GWB, the article continues...

"This may be only a coincidence; still it is regarded as a remarkable one by many, and notably by a lady who yesterday took part in a conference on the subject of the murders. This lady, from the first murder to the present, has interested herself in the hue and cry, and made herself personally acquainted with the leading features of the crimes. She has acted as an amateur detective, and discovered many leading clues, which she has duly communicated to the police, only to be repulsed. Possessing a full knowledge of the clue upon which Dr Forbes Winslow is working, and being a well-known thought-reader, she is understood to distinctly affirm a connection between John Cleary and the "Dodger". She is convinced that once she sees the murderer she will be able to identify him. This lady has lent valuable aid in the investigation and is as ardent a believer in the correctness of the clue as the discoverer"

Dave's article continues with the story of the coffee stall holder (who had written a complete history of the case...) who produced the picture of George Sims when he says "I am quite certain I know the man...I have talked with him many times, and I can show you his photograph"

Murder Mag (not MEG) was the woman who dedicated her life to finding the Ripper because he had killed her friend

I'm wondering if these stories became somewhat mixed

I'd agree that the affluent Bella Freeman is a good candidate for the woman with the detective camera

It is stated that this woman was encouraged by the large reward(s) offered which would have been later in the series than from the first murder

LFW's psychic woman sounds quite respectable and possibly affluent

LFW's woman is a well known thought reader apparently, which is why I was searching for her among the Spiritualists

[Debra A]

Thanks for all that, Nemo and Dave (I was just checking out both of yours fabulous FW discussion on forums and am going back there now)

I suppose we have to find out now if Bella Freeman was thought-reader?!

It could very well be that we have two different women here (three with murder Mag who's story is along a similar path but not related, I think too). Bella is linked because of two separate mentions of her- Chicago May had her as a Whitechapel fence who was using her fortune to hunt the Ripper after a victim was killed on her property and Charles Booth described her as the 'notorious' Bella Freeman in his survey notes-making her a notorious woman hunting down the Ripper!
Chicago May herself was said to have used detective cameras in her blackmailing 'work'.

Forbes Winslow's lady does sound different.