Before it's too late

[sdreid]

Perhaps the shawl was one of the articles she pawned.

[sdreid]

I don't believe there was any record of that though.

[niko]

Dna!!!!

I suppose maybe we could get DNA from surviving lines of descent from both victims and suspects before they might die out. That is, in case we find a bloody knife sealed in the wall of some old London building someday.

Hi Stan, I found a knife burried not in a wall but in the floor of an East End railway arch. Which the floor was not concrete but soil, the arch is about four minute's walking distance from Berner Street.

I have proof that this model of knife was in circulation in 1888. The knife has been DNA tested by authorized person's in a laboratory, result's being, the finding of DNA belonging to me and also the DNA of another male, this male DNA was a primitive DNA. I asked them if there was female DNA on the knife, this is what they gave me to understand, that the sample they took from the knife had MALE blood and if there was FEMALE blood on the knife it would not be detected due to the MALE blood would cover the FEMALE blood "something to do with the Y and X chromosome's".

What they did assure me of is that they detected human blood on the knife (which was very old). The sample they analized was taken from the interior of the knife,s handle.

One thing I am sure of that the knife I poses was involved in a crime, possibly murder, all the best, Agur.

PS "YES" I think the knife I poses is the one Thomas Coram found in Whitechpel in 1888.

[sdreid]

Interesting Niko! Were you using a metal detector? Maybe some advancements in the future can detect some female DNA. I don't know how many descendants of victims are extant; hopefully some are.

[niko]

Interesting Niko! Were you using a metal detector? Maybe some advancements in the future can detect some female DNA. I don't know how many descendants of victims are extant; hopefully some are.

Hi Stan and thankyou for your interest, "NO" I did'nt use a metal detector, but did wittness how the Metopolitan police and after the propitor of the arch searched the arch floor with metal detector's four year's before I unburried the knife.

I was working as an appretice diesel fitter in a London taxi garage, my boss wanted to lower the garage floor in one part of the garage ( the garage was in a railway arch ) so me and another two fitter's started digging the floor which was a mixture of soil grease and saw-dust. Shortly after we began digging I unburried the knife.


The doctor's at the laboratory told me they had stored away a sample of which they analyzed, to keep for the future, as DNA testing would improve,"if you get what I mean". Ok then Stan, all the best,Agur.

niko.

[niko]

Interesting Niko! Were you using a metal detector? Maybe some advancements in the future can detect some female DNA. I don't know how many descendants of victims are extant; hopefully some are.

Hi Stan and thankyou for your interest, "NO" I did'nt use a metal detector, but did wittness how the Metopolitan police and after the propitor of the arch searched the arch floor with metal detector's four year's before I unburried the knife.

I was working as an appretice diesel fitter in a London taxi garage, my boss wanted to lower the garage floor in one part of the garage ( the garage was in a railway arch ) so me and another two fitter's started digging the floor which was a mixture of soil grease and saw-dust. Shortly after we began digging I unburried the knife.


The doctor's at the laboratory told me they had stored away a sample of which they analyzed, to keep for the future, as DNA testing would improve,"if you get what I mean". Ok then Stan, all the best,Agur.

niko.

[Wade Aznable]

About exhumation

Good morning everyone,
I just stumbled in this old thread, and when reading about the possibility of exhumation of the victims' bodies (to search for blade marks on the bones and the like), it made me think: do you think it would be helpful in establishing (or, at least, in giving a better idea) whether Liz Stride was actually Jack's victim or not?
What I mean is, could it be possible to use any similarity (or lack of) in the marks to clarify, at least a bit, this very controversial topic?

Thank You in advance for Your time and attention,
W

[sdreid]

I suppose it might help Wade. The big problem, I think, would be finding remains and then knowing for sure if they really belonged to the victim.

[Wade Aznable]

Hi Stan,
according to this ( http://www.casebook.org/victims/graves.html ), this could be a problem only for Annie. It is anyway true that the article is quite old and has not been updated in a while.

Best regards,
W

[Phil H]

Leaving aside the fact that exhumations are usually frowned upon, except where there are current criminal implications, I don't really see the point. In this case there is no obvious reason for exhumation, it seems to me just a case of speculative delving which cannot be right, surely?

I suspect that establishing the identity of the bodies beyond reasonable doubt(unless there is a coffin plate extant) might not be easy. There would almost certainly be bones only, and if the ground was waterlogged, coffin etc might have disappeared entirely.

In MJK's case the body was already in pieces.

I believe that recently when they went to exhume the body of cardinal Newman, as part of the rites associated withnhis beatification, almost
NOTHING was found in the grave.

But what would examination of the bones tell us that the autopsy reports do not? Do you know of scientific procedures that now exist that would shed additional light on things that C19th medical practice could not?

Leaving aside the macabre nature of exhumation, it would it seems to me need to be justified by a very precise set of questions and procedures seeking certain definite answers.

It is something that will NEVER come to pass, but I think even asking the question could be regarded as sloppy thinking - have we really squeezed everything out of the records we have? Are we really clear about what we are looking for?

Phil

[sdreid]

Hi Phil:

I agree that it will almost certainly never happen and not likely to yield any evidence even if it did but I have no problem with anyone speculating or asking the question.

Also, there must be less sensitivity to exhumation here in the U.S. We had no problem digging up President Taylor several years ago to investigate a possible crime that was many decades past any earthly justice. We also exhumed the purported remains of Jesse James not too many years ago just to try and prove it was him. He had been in the ground about the same length of time as the JtR victims and, as you say with the Cardinal, all that was found were some teeth and a hand full of bone fragments.

[Phil H]

...exhumed the purported remains of Jesse James not too many years ago just to try and prove it was him. He had been in the ground about the same length of time as the JtR victims and, as you say with the Cardinal, all that was found were some teeth and a hand full of bone fragments.

Interesting.

Off topic - but do you know, is the last resting place of Billy the Kid now known? I remember reading in a book about the Wild West about 50 years ago, that a few people knew where his graves was, but otherwise it was a secret. I've often wondered since.

Phil

[sdreid]

I don't know about that Phil. If you include all the people who claimed to be Billy the Kid in later life, I guess he would have several graves.

[Wade Aznable]

Good morning,
actually, Phil, on the "feasibility" side (including the moral aspects of the matter), I agree with you; but Stan got me right on the "speculation" side.
What I meant to ask was if, technically, the current advancements in forensics (of course, if the remains were enough and in a suitable state of conservation) could be of any help in clarifying some matters that are very much controversial - the example about Liz Stride being the first one which came to my mind, but I'm sure there are more - and in which way (confronting the bone marks that the knife / knives could have left was, again, the first one that came to my mind).

Best regards to you both!
W

[sdreid]

It would matter if any of the victims were buried in a durable coffin.