Was Alcohol Available After the Pubs Closed?

[lynn cates]

sleight agreement

Hello Maria. If you are suggesting that IS was engaged in a bit of verbal sleight of hand (sleight of tongue?) I completely agree.

Cheers.
LC

[mariab]

Well, Lynn, we don't know if Schwartz' story was not meant to (clumsily?) cover the fact that an IWEC member (Morris Eagle?) had previously interacted with Stride, as in perhaps throwing her out of Dutfields Yard.
You know I'm looking into this, as you happen to have the AF scans. ;-)

[lynn cates]

sequence

Hello Maria.

"Though possibly less plausible than BS having been simply an IWEC member who didn't appreciate prostitutes in front of his Club and who kicked Stride to the curb out of Dutfield's Yard."

This raises the natural question, Why was BS man not coming out the club door on Berner st, looking south, spotting Liz, and then ordering her out?

My point is, why would he walk out the door, go off towards Commercial rd, then come back, spot Liz, etc?

Cheers.
LC

[mariab]

Thanks to Monty and to all.

the possibility has to remain that BS was just some violent geezer staggering home from a pub north of Commercial Road who didn't like Jews or being propositioned by prostitutes. And who gave Stride a whack and kept walking.

This possibility remains within frame, of course. Though possibly less plausible than BS having been simply an IWEC member who didn't appreciate prostitutes in front of his Club and who kicked Stride to the curb out of Dutfields Yard.
By the by, I doubt that many inhabitants of Victorian Whitechapel wouldn't have been habitually tipsy at the time of night when the Schwartz incident supposedly happened.

I remember a poster suggesting that Eddowes's hand was frisking Lawende's man for a flask.

LOL. Or for his wallet.

[Stephen Thomas]

Schwartz didn't say anything about BS appearing tipsy.

Yes he did, and the possibility has to remain that BS was just some violent geezer staggering home from a pub north of Commercial Road who didn't like Jews or being propositioned by prostitutes. And who gave Stride a whack and kept walking.

[Robert]

I remember a poster suggesting that Eddowes's hand was frisking Lawende's man for a flask.

[Monty]

Some street vendours sold beer, majority home madre stuff.

If I recall correctly Mayhew mentions this in London Poor.

Monty

[RedBundy13]

The pubs were only closed for 4 hours a day. That was from 2am until 6am and some places stayed open 24 hours a day they just quit selling alcohol for those 4 hours. Im sure it was back then like it is today that if you knew the owner or the manager and they trusted you they would serve you as long as they knew you would never say anything. So I'm sure that there was always a place that you could go at any hour of the day to get a drink if you wanted one.

[The Grave Maurice]

I don't see a problem with obtaining alcohol at any time in the East End in the LVP. Some pubs stayed open til 12:30 or so, others opened at 4:30 or 5:00 to catch the market trade. They also provided a takeaway service (see Blotchy Face and his pail). If someone couldn't last for the few hours that the pubs were shut, he could get a hip flask filled with gin before closing time. I can't see any need for "after hours" suppliers or bootleggers.

[Wickerman]

Not quite sure yet where I am going with this but does anyone know if there were places that someone could go at any time to get a drink after the pubs closed? I am thinking along the lines of individuals who were know to sell liquor. Or is it more of a case that when the pubs closed you were out of luck?

c.d.

Nothing I have looked up, but, if you recall the Nelson on Berner St. was a beershop, not a pub. The Nelson closed about 9:30 pm, but maybe that was only because it was Saturday night.
Pubs closed at midnight, so either Beershops closed before the pubs or Beershops kept their own hours.
Just something to throw into the pot.

Regards, Jon S.

[mariab]

Thanks so much, Lynn.

Hello Maria. Hope you don't have broad shoulders too! (heh-heh) (Nothing wrong with them, just might put some of us at a disadvantage.)

Precisely so (like all female shortboard surfers). ;-)

[lynn cates]

broad shoulders

Hello Maria. Hope you don't have broad shoulders too! (heh-heh) (Nothing wrong with them, just might put some of us at a disadvantage.)

I'll send a scan soon.

Cheers.
LC

[mariab]

Well absinthe makes the heart grow fonder.

LOL. Have never tried it, but my boss claims they used to serve it at the Flore when he visited Paris as a student in the 60's. I suspect he's exaggerating.

BS walked as if tipsy. If I recall properly, Christer wished to account for possible inebriation.

Oh, OK. Christer's theory of the secret lover.
By the by, BS's physical description actually fits mine, as I'm very often injured and walk with a slight limp. :-)

PS.: Lynn, if you wish to send me one or two of the problematic pages, I'd be interested in seeing them.

[lynn cates]

replies

Hello Maria. Well absinthe makes the heart grow fonder.

Most pubs closed around then, as you say.

BS walked as if tipsy. If I recall properly, Christer wished to account for possible inebriation.

Cheers.
LC

[mariab]

Or how about a sip of absinthe with a grapes chaser, Lynn? ;-)

Lynn, Schwartz didn't say anything about BS appearing tipsy. Are you referring to a source?
By the by, what time did the pubs close again in Victorian Whitechapel? At midnight?