Accusations of a Ripper "cabal" (Moved from another thread)

[Stewart P Evans]

Judgement

No one has said it isn't up to Keith. It is entirely up to Keith to publish his copy. There are others out there. And while the decision to publish or not to publish remains with those who hold the copies (after all none of this material is copyrighted), the rest of us are allowed to pass judgment on their reasons for doing so. And when their reasons are petty, (as you yourself said, the material would have been published long ago if not for Trevor)...well we have the right to consider those reasons petty.
Everyone is responsible for their own decisions. Trevor may well be a horse's ass of the first order and he is entirely responsible for his actions.
But everyone else is equally responsible for their actions and if you think the blame for the fact that this material hasn't been published will fall on Trevor, that's not going to happen.
He doesn't have the material, therefore, he has no say in whether it is published or not, so he gets neither the blame for it not being published, nor the credit when it eventually is, if it ever is.

As is already known I have a copy but I have it courtesy of Keith and there is no way that I would publish it without his permission.

Of course you, and everyone else, are allowed to pass judgement (or opinion?) on what has happened, but given the points I have gone into above some may feel that the reasons aren't petty at all. There may be a matter of principle involved. Again it's not really for me to say.

It's not a case of what I think, but is there really any blame to be allocated? Unfortunately the intention was to publish on these boards (steps had been taken to do this) and then Trevor 'queered the pitch', so people can make what they will of that.

[PaulB]

Well at least its not like you all wind and piss ! You muppet !

One can only laugh at you. Funny, funny, funny.

[Ally]

A cartel is a group of political or special interest groups having a common cause.

Is that specific enough for you

That gentlemen and ladies is my final word on these matters but I am sure it wont be from others.

Well at least its not like you all wind and piss ! You muppet !

So thank you Trevor. So much for being reasonable from here on out. You have basically proven yourself a crank. When asked a very simple question: to back up an assertion you make constantly and without end, you are completely and in all ways incapable of doing so and instead put on a vaudeville routine and do a song and dance.

Anyone surprised?

[Ally]

But surely, whatever the decision, it's up to Keith.

No one has said it isn't up to Keith. It is entirely up to Keith to publish his copy. There are other copies out there though I understand. And while the decision to publish or not to publish remains with those who hold the copies (after all none of this material is copyrighted), the rest of us are allowed to pass judgment on their reasons for doing so. And when their reasons are petty, (as you yourself said, the material would have been published long ago if not for Trevor)...well we have the right to consider those reasons petty.

Everyone is responsible for their own decisions. Trevor may well be a horse's ass of the first order and he is entirely responsible for his actions.

But everyone else is equally responsible for their actions and if you think the blame for the fact that this material hasn't been published will fall on Trevor, that's not going to happen.

He doesn't have the material, therefore, he has no say in whether it is published or not, so he gets neither the blame for it not being published, nor the credit when it eventually is, if it ever is.

[PaulB]

Sorry Stewart but this, I disagree with. There are several other people who have asked or wish to see the Aberconway version and punishing everyone because Trevor behaves aggresively when asking for things is just as spiteful and petty on the part of those who have it as Trevor is capable of being.

It does absolutely no good when people flat out say that they are withholding the Aberconway version as some kind of teaching moment for the entire class because there's one clown who keeps acting up.

I don't recall saying that I agree with it, I merely stated the situation that exists. That said, surely it is up to the person who has the material, and who went to all the trouble to obtain it many years ago, to decide where and when to publish it.

As I understand it, if not for Trevor's shenanigans it would have been posted on these boards some time ago. Also I do not follow the argument that if someone has some information as a result of private and personal research, often obtained at the expense of time and money, they are obliged to share it with everyone.

Frankly, I'm not sure that it’s either spiteful or petty. Deciding not to put something on the internet after the person who wants you to do it has implied you’re a thief seems a perfectly reasonable and understandable human reaction to me. And it most certainly isn't being withheld 'as some kind of teaching moment for the entire class'. It will be published in the next edition of the New A to Z or even earlier if very long-standing plans come to fruition.

[Stewart P Evans]

Touch a nerve...

Well at least its not like you all wind and piss ! You muppet !

Touch a nerve, did he Trev?

[Trevor Marriott]

Not really. You've defined a 'cabal', which is a clique or faction, usually political and generally secret or semi-secret. A 'cartel' is an association of people who control product, determine prices and restrict competition, as in a drug cartel.



Good. But what is clear is that you cannot defend your assertion that there is a cartel (or even a cabal, for that matter) exercising influence over the actions of others. So much for hot air...

Well at least its not like you all wind and piss ! You muppet !

[Stewart P Evans]

Another point...

Sorry Stewart but this, I disagree with. There are several other people who have asked or wish to see the Aberconway version and punishing everyone because Trevor behaves aggresively when asking for things is just as spiteful and petty on the part of those who have it as Trevor is capable of being.
It does absolutely no good when people flat out say that they are withholding the Aberconway version as some kind of teaching moment for the entire class because there's one clown who keeps acting up.

Another point here, of course, is the fact that if it had been put on the boards after all of Trevor's accusatory and abusive posts we would have then seen him appear boasting and crowing that his 'antics' had forced the holder of the material to post it on the boards, thus enhancing his self-perceived 'people's champion' image.

[Stewart P Evans]

Keith

...
It does absolutely no good when people flat out say that they are withholding the Aberconway version as some kind of teaching moment for the entire class because there's one clown who keeps acting up.

Sorry Ally, as I understand it, it is Keith who holds the material and the decision as to when to publish it in full is his (most of it, certainly all that's really relevant, has already been published).

I also don't recall Keith posting anything himself regarding withholding the material or his reasons for doing so. Others may have given their thoughts as to why Keith hasn't released the full transcript and they may or may not be right. But surely, whatever the decision, it's up to Keith.

[PaulB]

A cartel is a group of political or special interest groups having a common cause.

Is that specific enough for you

Not really. You've defined a 'cabal', which is a clique or faction, usually political and generally secret or semi-secret. A 'cartel' is an association of people who control product, determine prices and restrict competition, as in a drug cartel.

That gentlemen and ladies is my final word on these matters but I am sure it wont be from others.

Good. But what is clear is that you cannot defend your assertion that there is a cartel (or even a cabal, for that matter) exercising influence over the actions of others. So much for hot air...

[Stewart P Evans]

I don't recall...

Sorry Stewart but this, I disagree with. There are several other people who have asked or wish to see the Aberconway version and punishing everyone because Trevor behaves aggresively when asking for things is just as spiteful and petty on the part of those who have it as Trevor is capable of being.
It does absolutely no good when people flat out say that they are withholding the Aberconway version as some kind of teaching moment for the entire class because there's one clown who keeps acting up.

I don't recall saying that I agree with it, I merely stated the situation that exists. That said, surely it is up to the person who has the material, and who went to all the trouble to obtain it many years ago, to decide where and when to publish it.

As I understand it, if not for Trevor's shenanigans it would have been posted on these boards some time ago. Also I do not follow the argument that if someone has some information as a result of private and personal research, often obtained at the expense of time and money, they are obliged to share it with everyone.

[Trevor Marriott]

You have accused people of being members of a powerful cartel - a cartel is a very specific thing, Trevor.

A cartel is a group of political or special interest groups having a common cause.

Is that specific enough for you

That gentlemen and ladies is my final word on these matters but I am sure it wont be from others.

[Brenda]

.

David Radka, may he rest in peace, was fond of labeling it the "cognescenti" as opposed to "cabal" or "cartel".

[Steven Russell]

Thanks, Tom. That's made the whole thing clear.

Anyone want to form a coterie of armchair monkeys who've never had any Ripper material published?

Hopefully,
Steve.

[Tom_Wescott]

I think we all need to step back a bit and consider the facts. What I think might be confusing people is the 'cartel' versus the 'cabal'. It needs to be appreciated that Monty is a member of both, but they are separate entities, and they are QUITE SEPARATE from the conspiracy he's currently a part of, which merely is an offshoot of his Cabal, but does not involve all members of the Cabal. His 'Clique' is also a very different group, as it merely consists of Monty and a few 'mates' who gather at a 'pub' and buy each other 'pints'.

It is not yet clear to me what role Monty plays in either his Cabal or Cartel, but I have been assured by an anonymous source that he is NOT the treasurer, which makes sense. I had hoped my source would publicly identfiy Monty as part of the Cabal, but upon learning Monty was a Jew, he refused to give evidence. Fortunately, from private information, I've been able to confirm that Monty's friends...or was it his family...strongly suspected Monty's involvement not only in the Cartel and Cabal, but also in Cabaret, a most disturbing image. However, I have destroyed all my notes relating to the matter, so the truth will never be known.

UPDATE: It has been discovered by the Cabal/Cartel-free Philip Sugden, that at the time this thread was started, Monty was in a French prison, thus couldn't have been responsible.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott