Accusations of a Ripper "cabal" (Moved from another thread)

[PaulB]

I dont recall anything being mentioned about a conspiracy and besides one of the ingredients of a conspiracy is simply a need to prove an association with a view to carrying out a common purpose. A joining or acting together, as if by sinister design by two or more persons.

If the cap fits as they say

You have accused people of being members of a powerful cartel - a cartel is a very specific thing, Trevor.

[Ally]

One of the ingredients of a cake is flour but if all I have is flour, I am not baking a cake.


Do you have any proof, evidence or a single shred supporting your claim that there is a Ripper cabal, pulling strings as you claim?

[Trevor Marriott]

Excellent, so glad to hear you are coming down for common sense from here on out.

So Trevor, is there a single shred of evidence, proof or fact that backs up your continued assertions of an active conspiracy on the part of Ripper authors and researchers as some sort of grand money and or fame making machine?

I dont recall anything being mentioned about a conspiracy and besides one of the ingredients of a conspiracy is simply a need to prove an association with a view to carrying out a common purpose. A joining or acting together, as if by sinister design by two or more persons.

If the cap fits as they say

[Ally]

True, I guess it's a case of reaping what he has sown.

His aggressive stance has won him no friends and actually defeated the object he wished to achieve, i.e. seeing publication on these boards of the 'Aberconway version'.

Sorry Stewart but this, I disagree with. There are several other people who have asked or wish to see the Aberconway version and punishing everyone because Trevor behaves aggresively when asking for things is just as spiteful and petty on the part of those who have it as Trevor is capable of being.

It does absolutely no good when people flat out say that they are withholding the Aberconway version as some kind of teaching moment for the entire class because there's one clown who keeps acting up.

[Ally]

My my the gods are upset again today. I hope you havent laid awake all night worrying about this. You should chill out relax enjoy your twilight years all this huffing and puffing you do, you will give yourslelf a coronary.

I hope that common sense will now prevail

Excellent, so glad to hear you are coming down for common sense from here on out.

So Trevor, is there a single shred of evidence, proof or fact that backs up your continued assertions of an active conspiracy on the part of Ripper authors and researchers as some sort of grand money and or fame making machine?

[Monty]

Raoul,

What a pathetic weasel you truly are. You come on here, making demands and claims which you have no knowledge nor expertise of.

You know nothing, and you are making a fool of yourself. You obviously are in cahoots with Trevor in an attempt to hide the truth about him*


See my point? When the boots on the other foot eh?

Stewart, Paul, Martin, Keith et al have all made significant contributions to the field. Now you may or may not agree with their findings, but to state they are part of a secret organisation created to prevent the 'truth', besmirch reputations and character, is completely and utterly disrepectful. Its spitting on the work of those shoulders we all stand on.

Sorry mate, but I've had enough. You simply cannot behave that way and expect others just to take it on the chin.

Its peoples hard earned reputations here.

Trevor,

I bet you want it closed. As is often the case with a bully. They soon run when you stand up to them.

Again, have you evidence of a cartel/cabal/ old boys club and its negative influence?

Why am I asking? Really, I mean, I'm due in Whitechapel today. I should be there, in the sun, having a few beers and a great time with great company.

You'll keep Trevor.

Monty


* That passage was an example of how some posts can effect. Its not how I truly think about Raoul, who has made some real great contributions.

So please Raoul, I did not mean a word of that paragraph.

[PaulB]

I dont have to substantiate anything to you. The facts, the postings the constant ramblings by you and others all supporting each other lays testament to the claim. I have seen it others have seen it.

You are sadly alienating yourself and losing the respect others had for you but you cant see it. Stop the bullly boy tactics you adopt on here, stop trying to force you own views down the throats of new posters who come here and soon go because of you attitude towards them.

I have nothing more to say on this issue now and will not enter into any further discussion on this topic. So if you want to continue with your ramblings and name calling etc go ahead if to makes you happy. I am sure you will you always like to have the final say.

There you go again, dodging the question. You have made accusations about me on a public fora and therefore you do have to substantiate them if I ask you to, or you do if you want to retain any credibility. And none of your silly and obvious attempts to attribute your own behaviour to me is going to alter the fact that you aren't substantiating a damned thing. So, please do trot off and offer no further discussion on this topic. We'll hear no more of this cartel rubbish from you and that'll be perfect.

Trevor

You are becoming a very reliable source in that everything you write is the reverse of the truth.

Your bombastic attacks on people, projecting your own flaws, are just so much rubbish -- but this latest post about Paul is pointedly upside-down.

Paul Begg has been nothing but publicly and privately encouraging and helpful of many people's work, including my own without agreeing with one single aspect of my [provisional] conclusions (except perhaps that Sir Melville Macnaghten has been unfairly caricatured by some -- eg. Cornwall -- as an affable bumbler, and thus my work provides a necessary corrective, but that's about it).

So much for a 'cartel', or even a hegemonic opinion, or a lack of academic rigour, or intellectual alienation and/or bullying -- as our debates are civil, productive, and even fun.

Thank you, Jonathan. I also worked with Patricia Cornwell for a while. I'm just a tart at heart.

[Trevor Marriott]

Trevor

You are becoming a very reliable source in that everything you write is the reverse of the truth.

Your bombastic attacks on people, projecting your own flaws, are just so much rubbish -- but this latest post about Paul is pointedly upside-down.

Paul Begg has been nothing but publicly and privately encouraging and helpful of many people's work, including my own without agreeing with one single aspect of my [provisional] conclusions (except perhaps that Sir Melville Macnaghten has been unfairly caricatured by some -- eg. Cornwall -- as an affable bumbler, and thus my work provides a necessary corrective, but that's about it).

So much for a 'cartel', or even a hegemonic opinion, or a lack of academic rigour, or intellectual alienation and/or bullying -- as our debates are civil, productive, and even fun.

Thats you opinion which you are entitled to give

[Jonathan H]

Rubbish!

Trevor

You are becoming a very reliable source in that everything you write is the reverse of the truth.

Your bombastic attacks on people, projecting your own flaws, are just so much rubbish -- but this latest post about Paul is pointedly upside-down.

Paul Begg has been nothing but publicly and privately encouraging and helpful of many people's work, including my own without agreeing with one single aspect of my [provisional] conclusions (except perhaps that Sir Melville Macnaghten has been unfairly caricatured by some -- eg. Cornwall -- as an affable bumbler, and thus my work provides a necessary corrective, but that's about it).

So much for a 'cartel', or even a hegemonic opinion, or a lack of academic rigour, or intellectual alienation and/or bullying -- as our debates are civil, productive, and even fun.

[Trevor Marriott]

I can understand why you would want to close a thread which is embarrassingly asking you to substantiate a claim you have made but which you quite clearly can't, and it is equally painful to all concerned to watch you wriggling on the end of the hook. You can end it all but substantiating the existence of this cartel that has the power and the influence to dictate its wishes to the administrators of this site, get you banned, and bring Ally here to attack you, and do pretty much all else...

I dont have to substantiate anything to you. The facts, the postings the constant ramblings by you and others all supporting each other lays testament to the claim. I have seen it others have seen it.

You are sadly alienating yourself and losing the respect others had for you but you cant see it. Stop the bullly boy tactics you adopt on here, stop trying to force you own views down the throats of new posters who come here and soon go because of you attitude towards them.

I have nothing more to say on this issue now and will not enter into any further discussion on this topic. So if you want to continue with your ramblings and name calling etc go ahead if to makes you happy. I am sure you will you always like to have the final say.

[Stewart P Evans]

True

The British always feel sorry for the underdog, but let's not forget that this particular underdog has been a bully, strutting around the school-yard and throwing out reckless accusations and insinuations.

True, I guess it's a case of reaping what he has sown.

His aggressive stance has won him no friends and actually defeated the object he wished to achieve, i.e. seeing publication on these boards of the 'Aberconway version'.

[PaulB]

As one poster on the thread from which this discussion originated has said "This thread does not cover itself in glory".

Personally, and while I have at times found people's choice of verbal admonishments fantastically amusing, I don't think that this kind of thread does our cause any service. If we wish to be accepted as a legitimate science or field of study, then we do ourselves no favours with a thread like this.

I'm only 26, but at your ages, some of you men should know better.

Raoul

I agree with you 100% and as someone who has tried and to some extent has succeeded in bringing a degree of maturity and seriousness to Ripper studies, I am deeply conscious of how this cat-scratching is a less than edifying spectacle. On the other hand, don't overlook the things Trevor has said, don't overlook the way he has twisted the words of others in an effort to diminish their reputations, don't overlook what he's said about Chris, Keith, Martin, Stewart, and other people whose hard work and generosity over two decades or more has given much to this subject. And don't underestimate how potentially damaging the insinuations of theft by a former police detective can be to the reputation and income of a professional researcher. Now, Trevor claims that there is a powerful Ripperological cartel who, as said, can even dictate to and influence the administrators of this site and Forums. All he's been asked to do is substantiate that claim. That's all.

[PaulB]

Well either way I wanted it to cease but by making a separte thread which really has been dominated by a small minority, I have to include myself in that it is just encouraging the personal conflicts to continue.

I hope that common sense will now prevail

I can understand why you would want to close a thread which is embarrassingly asking you to substantiate a claim you have made but which you quite clearly can't, and it is equally painful to all concerned to watch you wriggling on the end of the hook. You can end it all but substantiating the existence of this cartel that has the power and the influence to dictate its wishes to the administrators of this site, get you banned, and bring Ally here to attack you, and do pretty much all else...

[PaulB]

My my the gods are upset again today. I hope you havent laid awake all night worrying about this. You should chill out relax enjoy your twilight years all this huffing and puffing you do, you will give yourslelf a coronary.

Still no answers. Just crap.

[PaulB]

My self importance there is only one person who is so full of his own self importance and that sadly is you.

Yes, yes. We've heard it all before. It's never you, it's always someone else.

I think you will find everyone "does" no about the existence of a cartel it has been clear for some time now.

You probably think the moon is made of cream cheese too. What you think doesn't matter a jot, it's what you can demonstrate that matters.

Now what questions I choose to answer or not answer, and when and if I choose to answer is determined by me and not because you or Monty throw constant childish and abusive comments in my direction.

Interesting. You can call people members of a cartel, but when asked to substantiate your fantasy you claim it is up to you when and whether you do so.

As to cartel membership well if you say there is no cartel why are you and your sidekick Monty getting so hot under the collar about it.

I'll tell you why. Because you repeatedly make claims, often at the expense of others, which you can't substantiate. When called upon to do so, you duck and dive and use every naive little trick you can think of in an effort to dodge the issue, as your posts here clearly demonstrate. So you are being asked to actually substantiate the existence of this cartel garbage you have been witlessly wittering on about for weeks. And you won't. Because you can't.

But seeing as I am really nice person I will tell you what I will do as a show of goodwill. I will post the names of cartel members if you post The Aberconway Version of The MM and Dr Davies Forensic report.

Oh dear, do you really think that's clever? You know, it is sadly obvious to everyone where your credibility is, and that sort of response is just pulling the chain. There isn't a cabal, Trevor. Have the balls to admit it.