Accusations of a Ripper "cabal" (Moved from another thread)

[PaulB]

Sorry Stewart but this, I disagree with. There are several other people who have asked or wish to see the Aberconway version and punishing everyone because Trevor behaves aggresively when asking for things is just as spiteful and petty on the part of those who have it as Trevor is capable of being.

It does absolutely no good when people flat out say that they are withholding the Aberconway version as some kind of teaching moment for the entire class because there's one clown who keeps acting up.

I don't recall saying that I agree with it, I merely stated the situation that exists. That said, surely it is up to the person who has the material, and who went to all the trouble to obtain it many years ago, to decide where and when to publish it.

As I understand it, if not for Trevor's shenanigans it would have been posted on these boards some time ago. Also I do not follow the argument that if someone has some information as a result of private and personal research, often obtained at the expense of time and money, they are obliged to share it with everyone.

Frankly, I'm not sure that it’s either spiteful or petty. Deciding not to put something on the internet after the person who wants you to do it has implied you’re a thief seems a perfectly reasonable and understandable human reaction to me. And it most certainly isn't being withheld 'as some kind of teaching moment for the entire class'. It will be published in the next edition of the New A to Z or even earlier if very long-standing plans come to fruition.

[Ally]

But surely, whatever the decision, it's up to Keith.

No one has said it isn't up to Keith. It is entirely up to Keith to publish his copy. There are other copies out there though I understand. And while the decision to publish or not to publish remains with those who hold the copies (after all none of this material is copyrighted), the rest of us are allowed to pass judgment on their reasons for doing so. And when their reasons are petty, (as you yourself said, the material would have been published long ago if not for Trevor)...well we have the right to consider those reasons petty.

Everyone is responsible for their own decisions. Trevor may well be a horse's ass of the first order and he is entirely responsible for his actions.

But everyone else is equally responsible for their actions and if you think the blame for the fact that this material hasn't been published will fall on Trevor, that's not going to happen.

He doesn't have the material, therefore, he has no say in whether it is published or not, so he gets neither the blame for it not being published, nor the credit when it eventually is, if it ever is.

[Ally]

A cartel is a group of political or special interest groups having a common cause.

Is that specific enough for you

That gentlemen and ladies is my final word on these matters but I am sure it wont be from others.

Well at least its not like you all wind and piss ! You muppet !

So thank you Trevor. So much for being reasonable from here on out. You have basically proven yourself a crank. When asked a very simple question: to back up an assertion you make constantly and without end, you are completely and in all ways incapable of doing so and instead put on a vaudeville routine and do a song and dance.

Anyone surprised?

[PaulB]

Well at least its not like you all wind and piss ! You muppet !

One can only laugh at you. Funny, funny, funny.

[Stewart P Evans]

Judgement

No one has said it isn't up to Keith. It is entirely up to Keith to publish his copy. There are others out there. And while the decision to publish or not to publish remains with those who hold the copies (after all none of this material is copyrighted), the rest of us are allowed to pass judgment on their reasons for doing so. And when their reasons are petty, (as you yourself said, the material would have been published long ago if not for Trevor)...well we have the right to consider those reasons petty.
Everyone is responsible for their own decisions. Trevor may well be a horse's ass of the first order and he is entirely responsible for his actions.
But everyone else is equally responsible for their actions and if you think the blame for the fact that this material hasn't been published will fall on Trevor, that's not going to happen.
He doesn't have the material, therefore, he has no say in whether it is published or not, so he gets neither the blame for it not being published, nor the credit when it eventually is, if it ever is.

As is already known I have a copy but I have it courtesy of Keith and there is no way that I would publish it without his permission.

Of course you, and everyone else, are allowed to pass judgement (or opinion?) on what has happened, but given the points I have gone into above some may feel that the reasons aren't petty at all. There may be a matter of principle involved. Again it's not really for me to say.

It's not a case of what I think, but is there really any blame to be allocated? Unfortunately the intention was to publish on these boards (steps had been taken to do this) and then Trevor 'queered the pitch', so people can make what they will of that.

[Trevor Marriott]

Touch a nerve, did he Trev?

Far from it old bean take more than that. You know i have nerves of steel

Some people just never know when to stop I think you should take him in hand might stop him keep taking himself in hand.

[Ally]

It's not a case of what I think, but is there really any blame to be allocated? Unfortunately the intention was to publish on these boards (steps had been taken to do this) and then Trevor 'queered the pitch', so people can make what they will of that.

This is the point where I disagree. I disagree that Trevor "queered the pitch". A jackass in the stands screaming insults at the pitcher is merely a jackass in the stands screaming uselessly and a professional doesn't let a momentary gnat get in the way of his delivery.

Trevor is a gnat, easily batted aside. What the "matter of principle" is, I really cannot fathom. We were going to do this, but Trevor is an ass, so no we aren't. Who knew this capering buffoon was so powerful?

Hmm...maybe HE's the cartel, dedicated to keeping everything secret and hush hush.

But again, this is of course pure opinion you are right and everyone is entitled to disagree.

[PaulB]

No one has said it isn't up to Keith. It is entirely up to Keith to publish his copy. There are other copies out there though I understand. And while the decision to publish or not to publish remains with those who hold the copies (after all none of this material is copyrighted), the rest of us are allowed to pass judgment on their reasons for doing so. And when their reasons are petty, (as you yourself said, the material would have been published long ago if not for Trevor)...well we have the right to consider those reasons petty.

Everyone is responsible for their own decisions. Trevor may well be a horse's ass of the first order and he is entirely responsible for his actions.

But everyone else is equally responsible for their actions and if you think the blame for the fact that this material hasn't been published will fall on Trevor, that's not going to happen.

He doesn't have the material, therefore, he has no say in whether it is published or not, so he gets neither the blame for it not being published, nor the credit when it eventually is, if it ever is.

Actually, Ally, the original belongs to a private individual and not publishing it is out of courtesy to him. That it would be published has always been intended and permissions were being sought - I understand that Keith was actually in communication with AV's owner when Trevor got involved - and I understand that it will be published sooner rather than later. There's nothing secret about it.

[Ally]

Actually, Ally, the original belongs to a private individual and not publishing it is out of courtesy to him. That it would be published has always been intended and permissions were being sought - I understand that Keith was actually in communication with AV's owner when Trevor got involved - and I understand that it will be published sooner rather than later. There's nothing secret about it.

Thanks for the info Paul, I look forward to the day. I also look forward to the day when my application to the cartel is accepted so please put a rush on...?

[PaulB]

Thanks for the info Paul, I look forward to the day. I also look forward to the day when my application to the cartel is accepted so please put a rush on...?

An application form is in the post. Once returned you'll be warmly welcomed as a card-carrying member. And I don't think the day is far off.

[Stewart P Evans]

Yes...

Thanks for the info Paul, I look forward to the day. I also look forward to the day when my application to the cartel is accepted so please put a rush on...?

Yes, I did second Ally's application Paul.

[Stewart P Evans]

Disappointed

I think that there are going to be some disappointed people when it is published, something of an anti-climax in fact.

[Ally]

Yes, I did second Ally's application Paul.

Hah! you will rue the day when I infiltrate and throw you over as Lord High Commander of Secrecy and Woe and Floggings.

[Trevor Marriott]

Thanks for the info Paul, I look forward to the day. I also look forward to the day when my application to the cartel is accepted so please put a rush on...?

Well they have enough gobby individuals already I am sure you will be the icing on the cake, and of course when the cake starts to crumble the icing falls off first.

[Stewart P Evans]

I thought...

Hah! you will rue the day when I infiltrate and throw you over as Lord High Commander of Secrecy and Woe and Floggings.

I thought that you'd already done that. Well, at least the woe and floggings part.