Railway tracks- his entry and exit strategy ?

[ChrisGeorge]

Hi Phil et al.

You may wish to check out this thread from 2008 that I began when I was working on an article for Ripperologist entitled "Escape from Buck's Row." The article was intended to look at the railway as one of the possible routes of escape of the murderer. After the Nichols murderer, the police combed the nearby railyards for any clues so they were aware of the possibility that the murderer had escaped that way.

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=1189

Also look at this archived thread in which JMenges posted Bernard Brown's article, "Was Jack the Ripper a Railway Policeman?"

Best regards

Chris

[Phil H]

Thoroughness would suggest they would search the railway lines under and adjacent to Buck's Row, just in case the murder weapon that been tossed down there.

But having seen the difference between street level and the station, I am amazed that anyone can conceive of the murderer having come or gone by that route!

Phil

[TomTomKent]

So I think i should explain a little about night working on the railway, andwhy, with out access to the working practices of the time i am unconvinced the line could be empty overnight. If you have tried to travel in the UK on a national bank holiday, you will probably have noticed this is when we do a lot of engineering works. This is because there are fewer trains to cancel. The fewer trains you cancel the less money you lose. The loss in trains on a working day is a far greater cost than the preferential rates and cost of resources to get people in on a weekend, or more likely overnight. These days a very high proportion of works are done overnight, with no trains to redirect and the electricity isolated.

This is essentially for works on the signals, or any job that can not be run between trains. I am dubious of any theory that assumes the line is empty with out evidence, and of any body who thinks they canwalk easily down dark cuttings, or through the limited space of embankments with no light on dark nights with out appreciating the inherent awkward nature of the environment. I have seen too many idiots who have made that mistake (even excluding modern issues like conductor rails). Too many idiots who try and use the railway as a shortcut get hurt. It could explain why Jack vanished however.

[Phil H]

Trains were certainly running the night of Nichols' death, as one of the Buck's Row residents heard the noises of a particular service (as I recall) around the time she thought she heard voices she thought might be two killers.

Phil

[Sally]

But..

Seeing as how everyone was busy watching the Shadwell dry dock fire at the time; wouldn't it have been quite easy for Nichol's killer to just slip away without notice?

I think it would. Escape via the line is an interesting idea,but I'm not sure the killer would have needed it?

[Phil H]

For once Sally we are in agreement. Yay!!

Of the 5 canonicals, Nichols was nearest a rail line - Chapman, Eddowes and Kelly were nowhere near a railway line, and Stride some distance. Thus, I think the whole idea falls, but if it had any legs, it seems to me that they would have appeared in relation to Nichols.

Phil

[Sally]

For once Sally we are in agreement. Yay!!

Woohoo!

Don't worry Phil - it won't last!

[Chadwick]

Excellent, spyglass, just excellent.

Hi all,
Perhaps there was a clue in the Dear Boss letter

" I have laughed when they look so clever and talk about being on the right track."

I did wonder, seeing that the Whitechapel station is so central in local to the murders, if he didn't cover up and take the train out of there. He murdered so late at night, he could have taken an early morning train. This train goes as far as Liverpool. If he had already bought a round trip ticket, he would not have to stop at a ticket booth.

I'll probably be shot down on this one, but I thought it was worth a try.

[The Grave Maurice]

Gee, this "escape by train" theory is on about half a dozen threads currently. I'm not going to shoot you down, Chad, but, as Ricky used to say to Lucy, you've got some splainin' to do.

What's the connection with Liverpool and Buck's Row, or any point in between? Me, I've long believed that JtR lived somewhere in the area of Whitechapel. So hopping a train, or even attempting to walk through the tunnels, simply doesn't figure.

Let's say JtR is engaged with Nichols. He hears Cross/Lechmere approaching, so he nips up the street, around the corner, through Woods Buildings and, within a couple of minutes, he's joined the folks on the Whitechapel Road and on his way home. Why does it have to be any more complicated than that?

[Chadwick]

Gee, this "escape by train" theory is on about half a dozen threads currently. I'm not going to shoot you down, Chad, but, as Ricky used to say to Lucy, you've got some splainin' to do.

What's the connection with Liverpool and Buck's Row, or any point in between? Me, I've long believed that JtR lived somewhere in the area of Whitechapel. So hopping a train, or even attempting to walk through the tunnels, simply doesn't figure.

Let's say JtR is engaged with Nichols. He hears Cross/Lechmere approaching, so he nips up the street, around the corner, through Woods Buildings and, within a couple of minutes, he's joined the folks on the Whitechapel Road and on his way home. Why does it have to be any more complicated than that?

I don't disagree. I am a firm believer that our murder lived locally. I'm not as knowledgeable in the deep mysteries as most on this site. However, wasn't Tumblety located in Liverpool? Weren't most of the murders performed on weekends?

If it was Tumblety, which I am inclined to believe it was, it would not be out of the realm of his wealth to possess both an apartment in Liverpool and the Batty Street digs. The long coat, which he owned at that time, could have covered up his misdeeds, if he had "hopped" a train out of Dodge -- I mean, Whitechapel, as things certainly became quite hot there, especially after the double murder.

I was just postulating a theory, given the premise on this thread about him wandering the tracks at night after his killings, that he could just as easily taken the train in the early morning hours. As a poshly dressed man, he might have escaped close scrutiny. As I remember, they were looking for "leather apron".

I am not thereby claiming that he left town after every killing. I'm just saying that he wouldn't have to skulk through the tracks in the dark in order to escape.

I leave the assessment to more advanced members.

[The Grave Maurice]

There's nothing wrong with speculation, Chadwick. Please keep doing it. None of us knows what might come out of it.

[TomTomKent]

So let's assume Jack caught a train. A short hop between one or two stops may be possible with out drawing attention, if he covered up...maybe. But in terms of Tumblety returning to Liverpool, that would mean hanging around a main line station, and spending a considerable time in a confined space with other passengers who will be wondering why he did not take off his big coat, why it was buttoned up so tightly, and what those red stains on his cuff were.

[Chadwick]

So let's assume Jack caught a train. A short hop between one or two stops may be possible with out drawing attention, if he covered up...maybe. But in terms of Tumblety returning to Liverpool, that would mean hanging around a main line station, and spending a considerable time in a confined space with other passengers who will be wondering why he did not take off his big coat, why it was buttoned up so tightly, and what those red stains on his cuff were.

Early morning, private, first class compartment, frigid October in a drafty steam train -- who would ask questions? I don't know about you, but I would have a heavy coat on and be well buttoned up. Tumblety could afford to travel in style and he would.

I'm not saying he did. I'm just saying he could have.