The REAL origin of the term Jack the Ripper ?

[kensei]

Another possible connection between the name Jack the Ripper and the weapon rather than the man- James Kelly, a suspect who's received a lot of attention and who intrigues me greatly, was an upholsterer and it's been written that one of the tools of his trade was officially known as a "ripper."

[kensei]

Pizer was released on 11 September, Aaron Kozminski's birthday. ("Fortnight" is short for "Fourteen nights.")

I used to support Aaron Kosminski as a suspect (don't anymore). What a sick joke now in retrospect that his birthday is 9-11.

[Mishter Lusk]

Hello.

I was always under the belief that JtR used a post-mortem knife on his victims. But then again, there is much Ripper info I most likely haven't seen yet, so maybe I've not seen evidence to the contrary.

As far as why he is called Jack, I just always assumed that anything scary or frightening back then was referred to as 'Jack' (i.e. Jack-O-Lantern, Springheel Jack, etc.)

-Aaron (not Kosminski!)

[mklhawley]

Greetings,

In the Otago Witness of October 26, 1888, the article seems to have reproduced a September 8, 1888 Pall Mall Gazette article. In it, it says the throat was cut and the body was “ripped”:

Otago Witness, October 26, 1888.
THE LONDON ATROCITIES.
(Pall Mall Gazette, September 8, 1888.)

…The victim was found in the back yard at No. 29 Hanbury street, Spitalfields…Her head was facing the door, the throat was cut and the body ripped.

Does anyone know of any earlier description of the Whitechapel victims’ bodies being ripped?

Sincerely,

Mike

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Mike. There are many instances of 'ripped' being used prior to the Dear Boss letter, including quotes from the night watchman in Mitre Square.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[ChrisGeorge]

Hi all

I think most people who have studied the case believe the murderer used a long knife that did not fold like a "jack knife" but was more likely a surgical or amputation knife. "Rip" or "ripping" was a common enough term, and the name "Jack" was a common age-old name for a working man or a sailor, so the origin of the name "Jack the Ripper" is kind of obvious as an apt name for the killer. Not much mystery there, I don't think, whether it was first used by a journalist to refer to the Whitechapel killer of 1888, as many feel, or by someone else.

Chris

[mklhawley]

Thanks Tom and Chris.

[curious4]

Jack

Hello etc,

I have always thought, even before I was interested in JTR, that "Jack" implied a sailor (see Dickens "The Uncommercial Traveller" )- where he refers to Mercantile Jack, British Jack and Dark Jack among others. Sailors were also referred to as Jack Tars.

Incidentally, as Dickens refers to black sailors as "Dark Jack", could this throw some light on the question as to why Annie Chapman was called "Dark Annie"?

People of mixed race can be fair (sallow) complexioned and blue-eyed.

Best wishes,
C4

[mklhawley]

How Coincidental - March 1888

Hello,

This was written in March 1888 - A Captain Jack discussing a storm as a "ripper".

Wichita Eagle March 2, 1888.
OUT OF THE DEEP.
[a sea voyage]…We sailed along before a spanking breeze for some leagues, enjoying the bracing seas air, until the sky gradually became overcast… Capt. Jack said it looked “nasty,” and ordered men to take in sail. While they were at work the lightning began to flash with great vividness and rapidity, accompanied by thunder of a most terrific description, so deafening and long drawn that the peals seemed never ending. The sea about us was as smooth as glass – hardly a ripple disturbed its surface, while the air seemed heavy and close, as if with an ominous foreboding. “When she comes,” said Capt. Jack, “she’ll be a ripper, an’ no mistake. I never seen it like this unless it blew great guns after,” and he leaned forward, “to listen to the wind,” he said, but no wind came…



Mike

[curious4]

Jack

Hello mkl,

Well it does seem possible - JTR read this and either consciously or subconsciously the name stuck in his mind.

Best wishes,
C4

[Doug Irvine]

Are you sure you haven't confused Jack the Knife with Mack the Knife

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEllHMWkXEU

[ChrisGeorge]

Hello,

This was written in March 1888 - A Captain Jack discussing a storm as a "ripper".

Wichita Eagle March 2, 1888.
OUT OF THE DEEP.
[a sea voyage]…We sailed along before a spanking breeze for some leagues, enjoying the bracing seas air, until the sky gradually became overcast… Capt. Jack said it looked “nasty,” and ordered men to take in sail. While they were at work the lightning began to flash with great vividness and rapidity, accompanied by thunder of a most terrific description, so deafening and long drawn that the peals seemed never ending. The sea about us was as smooth as glass – hardly a ripple disturbed its surface, while the air seemed heavy and close, as if with an ominous foreboding. “When she comes,” said Capt. Jack, “she’ll be a ripper, an’ no mistake. I never seen it like this unless it blew great guns after,” and he leaned forward, “to listen to the wind,” he said, but no wind came…



Mike

Hi Mike et al.

"Jack" was a common name (Jack Tar, Sailor Jack, Spring-Heeled Jack, Jack and Jill, etc), and "ripper" was a common term, used today for a storm or a "ripping" event not especially to do with ripping as in killing. So I think the coming together of the two ideas in the name "Jack the Ripper" was logical enough. There's a touch of genius in coining the nickname for the Whitechapel murder. I wouldn't necessarily link it to this news report of March 1888 which mentions a Capt. Jack and a storm that was described as a Ripper. If anything, it has more to do with the violence of the crimes and the idea that "Rip" or "Ripper" was already common parlance for criminal activity with the "High Rip" gangs reportedly operating in England before the Ripper murders.

All the best

Chris

[Abby Normal]

Hi Mike et al.

"Jack" was a common name (Jack Tar, Sailor Jack, Spring-Heeled Jack, Jack and Jill, etc), and "ripper" was a common term, used today for a storm or a "ripping" event not especially to do with ripping as in killing. So I think the coming together of the two ideas in the name "Jack the Ripper" was logical enough. There's a touch of genius in coining the nickname for the Whitechapel murder. I wouldn't necessarily link it to this news report of March 1888 which mentions a Capt. Jack and a storm that was described as a Ripper. If anything, it has more to do with the violence of the crimes and the idea that "Rip" or "Ripper" was already common parlance for criminal activity with the "High Rip" gangs reportedly operating in England before the Ripper murders.

All the best

Chris

Hi Chris
What exactly did the term "high rip" mean any way?

[curious4]

Ripping

Used to mean "exciting", "thrilling" . As in "ripping tales of adventure". Not quite sure exactly when it began to be used with this meaning but certainly around the beginning of the 1900s.

C4

[ChrisGeorge]

Hi Mike et al.

"Jack" was a common name (Jack Tar, Sailor Jack, Spring-Heeled Jack, Jack and Jill, etc), and "ripper" was a common term, used today for a storm or a "ripping" event not especially to do with ripping as in killing. So I think the coming together of the two ideas in the name "Jack the Ripper" was logical enough. There's a touch of genius in coining the nickname for the Whitechapel murder. I wouldn't necessarily link it to this news report of March 1888 which mentions a Capt. Jack and a storm that was described as a Ripper. If anything, it has more to do with the violence of the crimes and the idea that "Rip" or "Ripper" was already common parlance for criminal activity with the "High Rip" gangs reportedly operating in England before the Ripper murders.

All the best

Chris

Hi Chris
What exactly did the term "high rip" mean any way?

The High Rip gangs were especially known in Liverpool and were the subject of a book, The Gangs of Liverpool, by Michael Macilwee, a Liverpool academic, though even the author questions whether there was one such gang or a number of gangs that were given that designation. Such names probably reflected the fierceness of such gangs.

At any rate, basically a jazzy, nifty gangland name, just like a names given to Gangsta gangs of today. It doesn't have to mean anything specific.

There were political gangs in the nineteenth century United States such as the Pug Uglies and the Rip Raps. The gangs in Britain were more criminal than political but the nicknames were similar.

Chris