Grave Spitting

[DanaeChantel]

I am sure this has probably been covered on other threads, however I could not find them if they were.

I heard or read somewhere that Joseph Barnett spit on MJK's grave. Supposedly a little girl and her friend were in the cemetary and the little girl saw this and told someone. Any truth to this?

[kensei]

I have heard this before, and with an anecdote like this no one will ever know if it's true, but even if it is we shouldn't jump to conclusions over it. It could have meant different things. For instance, Joe would have been in a highly emotional state at that time and anger is one of the early stages of the grieving process, as in "How could you leave me?!" or in Joe's case perhaps, "I told you I didn't want you walking the streets and now look what happened!" If he spit on her grave it doesn't have to mean that he didn't love her or that it was he that killed her.

[Bob Hinton]

Quick and probably correct answer,

I am sure this has probably been covered on other threads, however I could not find them if they were.

I heard or read somewhere that Joseph Barnett spit on MJK's grave. Supposedly a little girl and her friend were in the cemetary and the little girl saw this and told someone. Any truth to this?

Is no. The reason I say that is that there is absolutely no evidence that this did happen. Apparently this started when an old lady was talking about her mother who had gone to the funeral and her friend told her that she knew someone who said that........................anyway you get the idea.

[DanaeChantel]

Thanks. I thought it was probably something like that. I heard it was a little girl and when she became an old lady, she told the tale to others, or something to that effect.

[Johnr]

The Origin Of The Grave-Spitting Story

I think the whole Grave Spitting story, which probably began as an " urban legend" around the East London streets a hundred years ago, (along with the "my Aunty met a tall dark stranger with a black bag one dark night, and he patted her on the head and said: 'You hurry on home dear, a nice little girl like you should not be out this late on a dark night like this..' type story).

Actually the elderly lady whose mother passed on the Grave Spitting story was discovered by journalist/ T.V. producer Daniel Farson. She answered a publicised request for anyone with family information about the Ripper to contact ITV.

Several East Enders were interviewed by Farson on his two part documentary on Jack the Ripper in late 1959.
The story was briefly mentioned in the 1973 paperback edition of Farson's book entitled: "Jack The Ripper".
Another interviewee told how her family later lived in the Mary Kelly room and how they could still see strange marks on the wall...

The Grave Spitting story ( for me anyway) has that Victorian dramatic colour, beloved of theatre audiences in those days.

JOHN RUFFELS.

[DanaeChantel]

I believe I also remember hearing something about a radio talk show and someone called in saying their grandmother or great grandmother had been an East Ender and had seen the grave spitting incident, "supposedly".

Wow, some people actually lived in Mary's room after she was murdered. Jeez, how scary is that? I couldn't imagine such a horrific thing. There must have been some very negative feelings and dreariness in that place. That Landlord or slumlord rather, must have been desperate to allow someone else to move in there. I would have boarded the place up permanently. What a sick individual he must have been.

[lynn cates]

Supe

Hello Danae. Perhaps this will prove helpful.

http://www.casebook.org/dissertations/rn-spitting.html

Cheers.
LC

[DanaeChantel]

Thanks Lynn, I'll check it out.

[The Grave Maurice]

And there's this thread, too:

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=1684

[Baron of the High Rips]

When was Millers Court pulled down, because John DeChauncey told me it was one of those that survived the war?
Still I can imagine John McCarthy renting the room to the sort of morbid sightseers that found Joseph Merrick as a freakshow attraction.

[DanaeChantel]

Millers Court was pulled down in 1927, I believe. There is a picture on here in the East End photographs of it being demolitioned.

I can also imagine John McCarthy renting the room to morbid people who would view the poor Elephant Man (Joseph Merrick) as a sideshow. I still think it would be horrible and negative to live in such a place. Also, If I were one of the neighbors living in Millers Court when the murder occured, I would have hightailed it out of there and ran as fast and as far as I could and would NOT have looked back.

[Suzi]

Come in Nunners!!! x

[richardnunweek]

Hi,
Did someone call?
Being the person who was responsible for bringing this incident to Casebook many moons ago, I originally had strong views.
However as it appears that the author of this initially, a certain Mr Farson has been labled with the tag of being a touch 'unreliable', my faith has diminshed somewhat.
I would say that its only 50/50 that this incident ever occured, but if it did it would be intresting, especially if fleming attended the service, and especially if his height was established as ' a giant of a man....
Regards Richard.

[DanaeChantel]

umm . . .who is fleming? I seem to be somewhat lost. Was there a giant of a man at Mary's funeral?

The problem with the spitting story is the fact that this incident along with all of the incidents related to the JTR case happened so long ago. I would imagine if I were a teenage girl and I saw someone spit on a woman's grave who had just been murdered by JTR, I would be fearful of my life and would probably NOT tell ANYONE. Maybe I would tell years later if I had moved to the states and was married and away from Whitechapel.

Odd that Mr. Farson lost the supposed "letter". If I had a letter such as this in my possession, I would guard it with my life. It would be very important evidence. I'm sure the letter would have had a postmark and address on it and the lady could have been interviewed in person. This is too bad. Perhaps the man was a fraud. Sounds like it anyway.

[lynn cates]

Fleming

Hello Danae. (Joe) Fleming (AKA Evans) was an ex-boyfriend of MJK. His case records from Stone lunatic asylum, transcribed by Chris Scott, indicate that he was 6'7".

Hope this helps.

Cheers.
LC